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This page contains archived information from User talk:Jspoelstra. Please do not make any edits here, edit the base page instead.

Wasteland Recluse Edit

Where did the audio for the Wasteland Recluse come from? He has no unique dialogue. All the audio an this site is broken for me, so I don't really know what's there, but it isn't something he says, right? 69.l25 (talk) 23:55, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

That's generic dialogue for Tenpenny residents. 69.l25 (talk) 00:12, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Terrible Shotgun/Combat Shotgun anon Edit

If I may, I would suggest that this anon is the same anon that has been blocked in the past for inserting the same note about the combat shotgun and terrible shotgun numerous times in the past only to have the edits reverted. As such, a 3 day block may be inappropriate. Richie9999 (talk) 20:46, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Fallout 4 Edit

I just have some spare time to kill when I get bored while making mods so I thought I might as well be productive. If you think I should just stop you can say so, but I was going to do all the different categories to just get it over with. Runs With Ducks (talk) 22:08, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Link updates Edit

Hey J. Just letting you know that if you have any links you need changed (particularly common with FO3 locations), I can do it with my bot. I just had it change all the pages linking to "Corvega Factory" to "Corvega factory", in all namespaces, in around 3 minutes. --Skire (talk) 02:26, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Vandal Edit

Howdy, vandal here: I'mma leave duplicate messages on Leon, Bears and X's Tps to see that he gets dealt with in a timely manner. Richie9999 (talk) 08:02, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Over my head Edit

Uhh... what? What makes you think you have the right to overturn that ban without talking to me first? He directly ignored the warning given to him, and intentionally broke our rules by blanking his TP again. I'd understand if this was a first offense. But it was not. This wasn't even a second offense. He's blanked his TP multiple times. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 13:35, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

You're not understanding. He's been warned. He's been reverted multiple times. This wasn't ignorance of the rules. He's just fighting with us and ignoring our messages. Can't take good faith if he ignores us and keeps doing the same thing over and over again. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 15:45, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
That's fine and good. Mistakes happen. But he has still ignored us. If he would stop edit-warring and breaking our rules, and actually take the time out to answer us back, then the block would have never happened in the first place. But my main problem is the way you're working here. You never consult me before making big decisions like these in regards to my actions. If you think the block was wrong, it's not like I'm going to flip my lid if you want to talk about it and attempt a compromise. But going around and reverting blocks without discussion because you personally don't think someone deserved the block? That's lording your rights over mine. Just please talk to me in the future. You should know by now that I'm always willing to compromise. I just can't stand it when things are done behind my back. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 16:02, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
That's really all I could ask for. On my end, I'm sorry if I sounded condescending or patronizing. I know you were doing what you thought was right. It would just be nice if this user could show at least a little respect and answer us back so we can take their actions into good faith. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 16:19, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Reply Edit

The reference can stay if we get a significant amount of information directly from the guide, but the wording can be changed as long as the information remains the same. Some of the writing in the guides just isn't appropriate for a high-quality wiki like ours. And unfortunately I haven't been able to get FNV on my computer yet. When I get some money I'll try to get it before the Steam sale is up... --Skire (talk) 16:06, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Don BurnhamEdit

Hi J,

As you could probably tell, I'm new to this.

I wonder if you could please tell me what was unacceptable about my page so that you deleted it?

I realise it gives information about Don's CD, but I did try hard to keep the info to the point and not try to actively promote the CD. The reason I put up a wiki was because there was a huge amount of interest in the song - over 12000 views in just one of the YouTube videos in two years, and 63 comments - many of them asking for more info about the song, the band, and how to play the song. These comments are mostly from New Vegas gameplayers, so I thought that would be enough interest for me to write the page. There is also interest in the other songs in the game, and I had hoped other people would add to the page.

I'm very keen to know how I could write it differently in order to make it acceptable.

Thanks, SarahD --Sarah D Burnham (talk) 22:27, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Hello again J,

I just saw why it was removed. Is it possible for me to add to the page, and if so, what am I allowed to add?

Thanks SarahD --Sarah D Burnham (talk) 22:33, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Random encounters Edit

I'm assuming it wouldn't work if you just spawned them in-game, right? I'll find out how to force the encounters to happen if you can't. 69.l25 (talk)

I figured out how to get the Sydney and Emaline encounter. I can tell you how when you're ready, but you'll need to load up the G.E.C.K. first. And I can try working on the Lobotomite page soon. 69.l25 (talk) 14:45, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Just follow these steps and it'll work. I copied it almost exactly from the actual script to spawn the encounter just to make sure there aren't any problems. This won't work if Sydney isn't alive.

1: Go somewhere in the game and spawn an xmarker

2. Label its ref ID as "TriggerEmalineMarker"

3. Open up a new script and call it "TriggerEmalineEncounter"

4. Type the following: *Ignore the spacing. Only make a space where it says "Space"*

"<Space after title>

begin ontriggerenter player


FFEU17Marker1.MoveTo TriggerEmalineMarker

MS15SydneyRef.MoveTo TriggerEmalineMarker

TriggerEmalineMarker.placeLeveledActorAtMe FFEU17Hitman


MS15SydneyRef.AddToFaction FFEUSydneyFaction 0



5. Set up a trigger near the "TriggerEmalineMarker" marker

6. Click on the trigger and hit "edit base"

7. Give it a unique ID and select the script "TriggerEmalineEncounter"

when you walk through the trigger in-game, the encounter will spawn; however I left out the part that would turn them hostile.

I understand the "placeleveledactoratme" is used; however, this is used for the real encounter too because Emaline does not appear in the game and must be enabled. (for some other encounter NPCs they appear in an inaccessible map and are moved to the trigger location) 69.l25 (talk) 15:01, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Random encounters II Edit

I just wanted to make a new section so that everything isn't so squished together.

1: Go somewhere in the game and spawn an xmarker

How do I spawn an xmarker? -> In the Object Window, look for the "Static" section which is under the "World Objects" section. Click "Static" and on the Filter at the top left corner of the object window type in "xmarker". The object that listed in the Object Window with the Editor ID of "XMarker" is what you want. Just drag this object anywhere into the Render Window (just select a part of the wasteland first)

2. Label its ref ID as "TriggerEmalineMarker"

How do I label the refid? -> Once you've put in an x marker, click on it (it's the red X) and drop it to the ground by pressing "f". Then click on it and its Refrence Window will open up. The first blank space at the top will say "Reference Editor ID" to the right of it. In this section, type in "TriggerEmalineMarker"

--I'll continue once you get this part done. Just let me know if you need clarification.--

3/4. Open up a new script and call it "TriggerEmalineEncounter"

This is in the GECK right? -> Yes. Go to the top of the G.E.C.K. and click on one of the icons. The one you want to click on is the square icon of the pencil. This opens up a "Script Edit" window. In this window, click the script tab in the top left corner. Scroll to "new" and click it. Type the following:

"scn TriggerEmalineEncounter

begin OnTriggerEnter Player

FFEU17Marker1.MoveTo TriggerEmalineMarker
MS15SydneyRef.MoveTo TriggerEmalineMarker
TriggerEmalineMarker.placeLeveledActorAtMe FFEU17Hitman
MS15SydneyRef.AddToFaction FFEUSydneyFaction 0


--I'll keep going once you've got this.--

The script looks good! Next part...

5. Set up a trigger near the "TriggerEmalineMarker" marker

How do I set up the trigger? ->Save your script and close it. Go to the top of the G.E.C.K. where the icons are and select the box with a T in it. It's two to the right of the script icon. Click it and draw in a box like shape in the Render Window near wherever you placed your XMarker. It might be weird drawing it in, but it's not too hard to figure out. The trigger you drew in should now appear as a red box. When you finish making it, the Activator Window should appear. Where it says "ID" click the box that says "New" and type in any random ID. Delete the name which is under the ID. In the script section, scroll through and select "TriggerEmalineEncounter". Then press okay. Save and you're done! In-game, just walk through the trigger (It won't show up as a red box) and the event will spawn. I need more specific directions. Jspoel Speech Jspoel 15:23, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Double click the trigger and hit "Edit Base" to get the activator window.

69.l25 (talk) 15:38, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

My fault. It's "FFEU17SydneyFaction"

Any luck with the ref id? We could just give it a rest if it's too difficult. 69.l25 (talk) 20:13, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'd say just make sure you save and close the script. Having it open means it might not have saved. And I encountered this problem a lot when I first started, but you have to make sure you turn whatever you called the edit on. On Steam, before you press play, you have to go to data files and check off whatever you called the add on. 69.l25 (talk) 20:33, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

I can try. How would I get it? And I'm thinking their ref ID is messed up even when encountered in the real game, but let's see what I find. 69.l25 (talk) 21:36, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

But the encounter uses the same script we did. Even the "placeleveledactoratme" part. It would make sense that an NPC not placed anywhere in the game would have an invalide ref ID. 21:50, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

But when you play the encounter by the book, the same script is used. "PlaceLeveledAvtorAtMe" is used to spawn both John and Emaline, thus their ref ids would be messed up. They're not like other NPCs like Laszlo Radford who are placed in a separate map and then moved to the encounter location.

"Any item that is not created by pre-defined game scripts (either original or from mods) will have reference ID starting with FF to indicate that this item belongs to this particular save game. It is for dynamically generated items, like loot from containers, random encounters or trader's wares."

69.l25 (talk) 02:08, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Thats great. 1.2 Million per day. Hope we can keep that going. Agent c (talk) 17:09, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Troll Edit

Wasteland captive
You have been given an Execution!.
Your efforts and diligence have not gone unnoticed, and you have been given a small token of appreciation.
Congratz on the new beheaded troll! Metal Gear Mk. II "Anything, for the family" 19:17, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Editing OMG ITS HAMY's user page Edit

I'm assuming you have his/her permission to do that, right? 69.l25 (talk) 16:05, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 69.l25 (talk)

Vault Officers Edit

I removed the "involved in quests" part. They are encountered during the quest Escape, but they aren't particularly involved in it. 20:59, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well you can escape them. It's how you encounter them again during Trouble on the Homefront. They don't add anything to the quest. Their death, dialogue, and scripts won't affect the quest's progression or outcome. 21:05, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
For that same amount of time, Clover was Caucasian, Jericho was Evil, Butch was Neutral, Beatrice was Caucasian, Catherine was Caucasian, Woodrose was African American, The Surgeon was Neutral, The Roach King was Neutral, Nadine was Caucasian, and Lydia Montenegro was Caucasian. Even some of the officers had the incorrect Karma. And all this and much more stood for years. The time card is a Red Herring. I'm open to discussing the involvement of the officers in Escape!/TOTH, but I'm not going back off because they've been listed as involved for a long period of time. 21:22, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be a good idea to open up a discussion about what constitutes involvement in a quest. I haven't looked into this much, and judging by the five years that have passed with the involvement checked for the officers, maybe a lot of other people looked into this either. It wouldn't be fair to use just my definition or just yours. It should be the communities definition. With clearly defined and thought-out rules about what makes a character involved would most certainly reduce any disputes over involvement as well as set a standard for any future Fallout installments. 21:45, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I will be uploading more Master sound files. I have been running Youtube videos through MP3 converters, cutting the MP3's up with audacity and exporting them. I have a good number of files stockpiled, but there's still more to cut up. I'm uploading them as I go.

--VitiminV (talk) 00:00, July 25, 2013 (UTC)VitiminV

Books Edit

Titles of books are italicized. That's a rule of the English language, so they're not fine as they are. 69.l25 (talk)

I'm not entirely sure that the change would need to be discussed. Perhaps, like you, people just didn't know to capitalize books or just didn't feel the need to. We use American English on this wiki, and it's incorrect to write the books without italicizing them. I couldn't really imagine why any good argument from anyone who would want to keep the books as they are in most articles (not italicized) seeing as they would be arguing against using proper English. Maybe a notice or something along those lines would be better just to let people know that they have to italicize book titles. 69.l25 (talk) 21:26, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
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Links, links, and more links Edit

So I have finished fixing all links for the court case, even redirects of the old one (besides a few pesky blog comments that I cannot change for some reason). I also updated Masthead → Masthead Studios. Sorry for any trouble my bot caused the first time around =) And one more thing: you know how it is considerably rare for someone to revert one of your edits? Well, I just made quite a Lucky revert lucky revert on one of your edits ;) --Skire (talk) 00:46, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


Since I am adding these charts to Fallout 2 quests, should it be good to add them to Fallout Tactics missions? Energy X 10:10, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

I see. I can only add what I remember, which is not very much, but I'll try to, but only after the charts have been finished. Energy X 22:14, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

Armoury master Edit

Hi J. I have a GECK-related question about the Armory master on the mobile base crawler. Does he always spawn? Some information on the page would indicate that it isn't 100% (just played through Broken Steel and didn't see him, so couldn't get the precision Gatling laser). --Skire (talk) 21:48, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

I was playing on PS3 though. I checked and checked again, all over the mobile base crawler, but no sign of him. Perhaps it's just a bug? --Skire (talk) 01:20, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for all your work! Edit

Hiya Jspoelstra, I haven't really played FO3 since it came out, but thanks for touching up my Talk page. That's an old page of mine that some previous wiki op had rejected and deleted, but was nice enough to post to my Talk page (unformatted)... I recently fixed it back to wiki formatting so folks could see it, if they want. I guess the capitalization for all the links you fixed changed in the meantime. Anyway, thanks for your tireless work!

You can delete this after reading it, if you want. -RedKnight7 (talk) 19:15, July 30, 2013 (UTC)

Am I in trouble?Edit

Am I in trouble for copying-and-pasting? Because that's what I did.Leea (talk) 18:04, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Can I change it while it's still on his talk page? Do I have to upload another image from my computer if I want to use that?Leea (talk) 18:31, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

One more thing. I'd like to archive my talk page, it's getting too long and is taking too long to load. Is there some sort of special procedure?Leea (talk) 18:46, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Bullet Points Edit

I check for those as they come down the pipe, I can't do much with audiofiles due to my lack of a GECK. Occasionally, I check pages just for that and spelling orders, but when it comes to RC it's one of the things that I look for along with verify tags for bugs, spelling, speculation, vandalism, etc. with the edits coming down the pipe. Richie9999 (talk) 21:41, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

I just go based on what I've been told, which is to say bullets are for lists, not for individual items, as such I remove 'em when I see it (even if it doesn't look that great). Richie9999 (talk) 21:58, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Super editor Edit

Hey J, I thought I'd show you the next man you have to beat ;) here he is.--TwoBearsHigh-Fiving Intercom01 22:59, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Theplahunter Edit

I was just wondering what User:Theplahunter did to warrant a ban. From what I saw on the finland page he was attempting to revert the rampant vandalism, and while his message asking that the "idiots" stop vandalizing the article with their profanities and such wasn't the most appropriate way to handle the situation, it hardly seems to warrant a 2 week ban. Richie9999 (talk) 23:53, August 2, 2013 (UTC)


Metal Gear Mk. II "Anything, for the family" 23:36, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Cheryl Edit

We don't know her last name. Being one's sibling doesn't necessarily mean having the same last name. 69.l25 (talk) 18:33, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

I'm renaming the page to Cheryl (Fallout 3) seeing as there's no reasonable objection to it. We can change it back to Cheryl Koch if we confirm her last name. 69.l25 (talk) 18:41, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

We have a sockEdit

We banned User:TheScout201 from chat and User:Unbanplease, who we believe to be a sock of Scout. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 21:47, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Image ratioEdit

Is it not better that all Images are in the same size ratio? It may look fine in an infobox but look at how they look when put up against one another.

Republic of Dave
Republic of Dave

We should have some form of standardization. My new ratio didn't harm the wiki anywhere and it fixed issues like this that can occur, I see no reason why keeping the previous one is better. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 22:22, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

I already tried changing 250px to 300 and as it's a different size and shape it still looks stupid. However I format it there it isn't going to change that the original is a different shape, the ratios will remain the same. Nothing important was cut off, all we can see in the old image that isn;t in the newer one is some rocks and that the flyover is broken, and I see no loss in quality at all and it's not like you'd notice the change in quality in an infobox anyway. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 23:08, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

RE: Canyon Runner Edit

Whatever you say, Bossman. Richie9999 (talk) 17:36, August 5, 2013 (UTC)


I see you have added some stats, have you extracted them from the editor? I am asking because here it is stated that if Masticator is dead, Xander Holyland replaces him in the fight. Since I have the glitch, could you check if there is such a character (as there is no page for him). Energy X 22:30, August 6, 2013 (UTC)


Fixed it. Sorry about that :P.
JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 23:35, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Apprentice Edit

Be careful with the images you're removing that I'm uploading. They're all for the Apprentice, and the recent ones you just removed were for Paladin, who didn't have his entry up quite yet to put the images in. Everything is due tomorrow, so they won't be a bother for long. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 21:15, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Jotun and Ymir Edit

Why leave the behind the scenes? Is there a confirmed link between the mythology and the characters? 15:04, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

People like who? Sure it's interesting, but beyond that, there are no grounds for it to stay. 15:09, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
We don't really know that a good amount of people are really interested. Shouldn't we have higher standards than just adding something because some might find it interesting? Shouldn't we have more official information? 15:19, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
Well, Jotun's behind the scenes is not very informative/useful, but I can see why you'd want to keep Ymir's. We just need to be careful because there's no confirmed link between the mythology and the characters. Can we check to see if this information is even accurate? 16:13, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I just checked. I'm just having a hard time seeing how this is any different than having a character named Zeus and having a behind the scenes explaining the name's relation to mythology. At most it's because Ymir/Jotun is less known. And why don't we have this for Fallout 2's Ymir? 16:23, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
If we adjust the guidelines for mythology, then anyone with a name deriving from or otherwise related to a figure in mythology will have that reference in their behind the scenes section. I don't see why that's needed. Why wouldn't we just put the meaning and origin of all names then? 16:48, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Question for ya Edit

Hey, Jspoel, could you pop into chat for a moment? I have a question regarding a RWW comparison. Richie9999 (talk) 18:48, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

FO1 images. Edit

Hi, J!
I'd like to know why several FO1 images that I uploaded are being deleted. They were perfectly fine, png format and everything.
Cheers! --C'n-Frankie -ArroyoTalk 01:08, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

Project Edit

If you find yourself with the time, I was wondering if you could help me out with an image. Is there any way you could create an image for me out of this base image? I'm just looking to have a small square grid spanning the entire map. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 21:25, August 15, 2013 (UTC)

Essentially, like this. Except, without the coloured dots. :P ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 21:39, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
The grid looks perfect! Even better than I was expecting, actually, as I really like the blur effect on the edges of the lines in contrast with the map behind it. Thanks bunches, J! ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 01:14, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I really need to get myself a better program for that sort of thing. Paint.NET just doesn't cut it when it comes to layering images or adding onto images. Best I could do with it was create the blackboard for Chad's Hole. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 01:22, August 17, 2013 (UTC)


Thanks J, sorry havent been able to talk in a while, Flat out doing all sorts of stuff, changing jobs, etc. thanks for the image. Todays news is probably going out tomorrow, just both busy and on holiday... I'd suggest having a look at my profile to see a pic of me and my sign, but knowing you, you saw it already... Agent c (talk) 21:01, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Trying not to think too hard about the greys.... Oh well maybe I still have time to become a "Silver fox". This is a tram stop here in Blackpool, which is like a seaside resort, full of very corny and cheesy attractions... Agent c (talk) 21:33, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

No, just here for a few days, I live in Glasgow. Just here to visit the pleasure beach (amusement park) and marvel just how cheesy this place is. Agent c (talk) 22:09, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

Images Edit

hey, I was wondering if i could use images you uploaded to this wiki, on the dutch fallout wikia. Thanks in advance for your answer

Audio files Edit

Hey, J, I noticed that there are a couple of incorrect audio files on Jaime's_personal_journal. The first is a jumble of audio, not sure if it's broken in the original file, the 6th is incorrect, a copy of one of the others. Thought you might want to look at them. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 18:02, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


While I appreciate the work on the Fallout 2 character images, some images have too many other characters. Perhaps it is best to insert the models. Energy X 19:06, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

I did not say all of them. This is a perfect example of such images. Energy X 13:35, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

West Pump Station Edit

Hey, last night an anon removed a lot of content from the West pump station page, stating that he did not find the terminal in the building. I checked the GECK and did find the terminal there, however, so I reverted the edit this morning. While the content was removed though, the page's two images, here and here, were deleted. Would you mind restoring them or should they be removed from the page? Paladin117>>iff bored; 14:03, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't realise about the possessive term. Rollersteaam (talk) 12:45, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Secretary Edit

Yeah, I changed the wording around a bit with a second edit. Like you said, he was acquitted of all charges. But he was still initially impeached at the time, so it wasn't really an almost happened scenario. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 23:36, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

A very good find. I don't even remember seeing her during my multiple F2 playthroughs. Along with the Quayle wannabe, the personnel on the Oil Rig have shaped up to be very, ah... interesting. xD ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 23:43, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Bullets Edit

Oh, okay. I may have gotten a bit carried away on the bullets; sorry about that. --THE NUCLEAR KING Talk 01:40, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Links, links, and more links!Edit

Hi J. I saw your comment on the fora the other day about how you wanted others to still edit with even half of your ardour... I have been busy lately with summer homework and it seems that this busyness will not go away any time soon, but I hope to still help out when and where I can. And so I hope you don't mind if I sneak in intermittently to help you out with those numerous link updates. --Skire (talk) 03:21, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Question/Suggestion Edit

Howdy, Jspoel, could you pop into chat? I've got a question/suggestion thingamajig for ya that I'd like to run by you. Richie9999 (talk) 16:46, August 24, 2013 (UTC)


Hi J, as much as I like the monty python encounters, didnt quite work for the caption contest at the reduced size those images appear, but it gets pride of place in the slider (along with the bridgekeeper). Agent c (talk) 01:04, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hubris Comics Edit

Hi, just asking an opinion here, but I've noticed that the Hubris disambiguation page is near identical to the Hubris Comics disambiguation page, might I suggest removing the comics page in favor of one "Hubris" disambiguation, as I don't see there is really a need for such exactitude in this case. Thanks. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 17:25, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Hi there, another suggestion. I wonder if the Dunton brothers link could be removed as it leads to Dunton, a disambiguation page, because it is being used to describe both brothers, which only have separate links, which consequently meant they weren't being linked properly. Though I have fixed most, if not all of the links, it would be useful for any future reference. If the redirect to "Dunton" can be kept for the search function, that would be more useful. Thanks. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 14:13, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
That's fine, I just remembered something about internal links leading to disambiguation pages is all, so there goes me being clever! But you're right it does make more sense. Thanks. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 14:59, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Fan art on pagesEdit

It's come to my attention that there are a number of coloured versions of Vault Boy perk images (for example PiercingStrike2, as nice as they look, they're not official content and shouldn't be allowed on pages. What is your take on this? Should they stay or should they go? If we keep them, would we need to alter the policy?
JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 20:34, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

Stats help Edit

I was wondering If you know what "EL" "EM" "EX" mean on the FO1/2 mod thing? I'm trying to get a standard template together.--Ant2242 (talk) 22:28, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

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Tags Edit

It doesn't look right to me, but maybe you check if Dusty (Fallout 3) really has 4 tag skills, (can NPCs have more than 3?). Also, and you may already have realized, but those gaps that spoil the look mainly apply to characters that level up through Broken Steel and resistance boosts through apparel. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 15:45, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

On a similar note Mad Johnny Wes also has a 4th tag. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 16:50, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Templates and line heights, etc.Edit

I pulled the 16px line height straight from the infobox, that's what the rest of the infobox is styled at. As far as the word wrap, there's not much we can do. The infobox template is dividing the sections automatically, and we're stuck with the width we have. Our choices were to use abbreviations, which I didn't like since they read poorly, or let the words wrap to a second line. I went with wrapping. I can make the table cells top aligned. That may make them read better. They should have done that anyways, from the infobox styling, but I see they aren't. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 19:35, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

I top-aligned the text in those templates and reduced the line height to 11px. They're quite a bit tighter now, but we will still have the text wrap on long lines. One option would be to replace the tag skill and derived stat description words with icons. This would allow a lot more space in the table for the data, and should stop all the word wrap. The problem with that is icons are gonna be 14px high, putting us right back into a longer section. We *could* make the stats sections collapsible on page load, but I'm not really sure we want to do that. Ponder that for a bit and see if you want to look at either of those ideas. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 00:19, August 31, 2013 (UTC)
Continuing to plink away at those templates. The extra indent come from the inherent cell-padding in the infobox. I can't change that in the infobox, so I added a left-margin of -3px to the table. Take a look at [[User:The_Gunny/sandbox8]]. Does that look better? The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:51, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

US pre-War flag imageEdit

Hi J. I wanted to ask you about something. The old US pre-War flag image (this one) had dimensions that made it show up awkwardly in infoboxes, when compared to the Chinese flag. I made a new version of the image (this one) by vertically cutting some of the flag off the right end. The current version of Anchorage Reclamation uses my new version. Would you say it's still "official" enough to use? --Skire (talk) 21:15, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Sound files Edit

Thanks for the kind words. It has proven to be quite enjoyable, as I have (at least temporarily) moved on from playing the game, and listening to all the audio kind of takes me back. --FFIX (talk) 19:35, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Fallout 3 loading screens Edit

Hi! Long time no see, huh? Yeah, since I've dropped the idea of becoming an admin, I found a lot of time to make some really interesting stuff. :))) Ok, straight to the business:

  • Loading screens - these images, with white backgrounds, are meant to be blended with So, all you need to do is to open a front image and background as layers, and change blending mode to "Multiply" for the front image. GIMP is really great at this, as it has "Open as layers..." command, so you can load all images in just a couple of clicks.
  • Map markers: Basically, it's the same old "", but it has been upscaled to 3072x3072, and heavily retouched to cover deffects. But the main component is a self written program, which renders markers and text, applies visual effects and trims final image. Took solid two months to write such a thing, but it was worth it, as it works much better, then the Pip-boy does. ;)

--Теодорико (talk) 07:09, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

It's not even a question. This goes without saying. The only reason, why I'm uploading images locally at the Russian wiki, is that we have strongly mixed feelings about the common storage. We don't like the fact, that content in the common storage is a bit unmanageable from our perspective - each time the files are renamed or deleted, we are getting broken file links... As for the FO3 loading screens, just give me a couple of days to finish the table - some images have a somewhat twisted history of usage in DLCs, and it's hard to separate cut content before whole table is done. By the way, here and here, is the complete set of backgrounds for FNV. --Теодорико (talk) 23:32, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Everything was fixed long ago. ;) --Теодорико (talk) 00:23, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Wanted portalEdit

I can't see anything. I deleted a redirect, leaving only one to the page. The one I left is in the "Wikiportal" namespace, which I don't think is a proper namespace. I'm considering deleting that one too. Not sure what that will do though. All the other links seems to work fine, and linking from the red link goes right to the page. Perhaps the log will update? The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:01, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Haven't gotten to a solid position on that yet. I'll give it some thought and add them to the forum. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:10, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
OK. Left my 2 cents. I've also removed the extra % signs in the derived stats template. The only things I think we can do to reduce the line breaks from here are to shorten the stats names even more, or see if I can find a replacement for the →. It renders short here, but it's pretty long on the template for some reason. I'll see if I can come up with some alternatives and try them in my sandbox to see which works the best. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:23, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Here's the alternatives I found using html entities: - ; ~ ; / ; > ; Δ (that's a delta, means change in mathmatics); and ». [[User:The_Gunny/sandbox#Infobox_character|Do any of them look better than the arrow?]] Personally, I like the tilde the best. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:37, September 2, 2013 (UTC)


I thought it just looked kind of awkward to have a description for one character and not the other, and it was an unhelpful one as well. 16:55, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Savior of the Damned Edit

I have 73 days left to go. I pray every night that there won't be a hurricane or tropical storm! Why do you ask?Leea (talk) 17:38, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Carter and 102 Edit

Okay I'll keep the old layout if it's gets to be too much. I found a weird thing about stats that I was wondering if you could take a loot at. Character's with a set level, a skill of 100, and apparel that boosts that skill, like Orion Moreno and the Guns and Melee Weapons skills, actually have a modified skill of above 100 (102 in Moreno's case). Can you look into this just to verify what I've found. Thanks. 18:34, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

I was going to say something about Carter but nevermind. 18:35, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I just wanted to see if someone could confirm that tag skills can go over 100. It doesn't really have much to do with the infobox. 69.l25 (talk) 20:31, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
All right. Is it possible for you to check this for a character that levels with the player? If I'm right, you won't get any skills over 100. 69.l25 (talk) 21:26, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah. I'll stick to my account. Thanks for checking over the tag skills. 69.l25 (talk)

Off topic questionEdit

Hi J! I was reading something the other day and I picked on something that said there are more bicycles than people in the Netherlands. Now I know cycling is definitely more popular (both for sport and transportation) in the Netherlands than here, but to what extent? Do you bike in your commute? --Skire (talk) 18:51, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, that's cool. I wish the roads here were more friendly towards cycling. Many major roads don't even have sidewalks, never mind biking lanes... --Skire (talk) 19:08, September 3, 2013 (UTC)

Republic of Dave capitol buildingEdit

Did you undo this edit because you thought it isn't true or because it itsn't notable? 13:38, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

He's talking about inside the building though. 13:41, September 4, 2013 (UTC)
All right. We'll leave the note on the page then. 13:50, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Merc outfit Edit

If you'd like I can run my bot and fix the capitalization issues when I get home in a couple of hours. --TwoBearsHigh-Fiving Intercom01 18:35, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good, just drop me a message.--TwoBearsHigh-Fiving Intercom01 22:57, September 4, 2013 (UTC)
I understand and I can do that. Unfortunately I have my Pywikibot compiled only on my desktop, so it will have to wait until when I get home. --TwoBearsHigh-Fiving Intercom01 18:52, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
Woops. I forgot to make an exception for images. --TwoBearsHigh-Fiving Intercom01 18:46, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

G.E.C.K. Edit

Sorry about that, gotta stop before it becomes a habit. Yes it is a shame, but there's no point dwelling on it, maybe I can find someone closer to home who's got it, other than that like I said to 69.125 I'll keep up as best I can. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 10:08, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jspoelstra, thanks for renaming the image. I didn't know how to do and was looking for. And sorry if my english isn't perfect.

Siro Notturno (talk) 18:53, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Tactics characters Edit

Sorry 'bout that I don't know where that notion came from, some kind of confusion, at least I didn't get too far! Thanks for the reminder. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 13:49, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Edit countEdit

Ah, but that's cheating if you've been saving up to do it! Hahaha! To be honest, I'm not surprised you've beaten me, I was just happy I had beaten you for that day ;). How are you J? -- GOTW User | Talk 18:13, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Hahaha, I'm just yanking your chain :p. Yeah, they look a lot better; I'm a firm believer in standardisation of the wiki, so I think that's a great improvement. Congrats! Yes, I can see that seen as you are getting a lot closer to 150000 edits. Erm, she's not getting better so I'd go with stable. We'll see. I'm going back to university soon, so then I won't really be able to help at all so I'll probably be returning in part towards the end of the month :) -- GOTW User | Talk 19:20, September 6, 2013 (UTC)


Hey Jspoel... Ive been feeling really run down recently, cant put my finger on why, so I've struggeled a bit getting the regular features out. I'm hoping to sit down and dedicate a day or two to the wiki before Uni starts and get some old half finnished stuff done.

Noticed Traffic as a whole is down recently from 8 to nearly 5 million hits, chat is almost dead in peak times... Hopefully the next Apprentice installment is not too far away, and I have a video on a nuclear bunker visit to edit that might cause a bit of a spark. That and the end of summer will hopefully perk folks up. Agent c (talk) 13:31, September 7, 2013 (UTC)


Hallo J. I was wondering about something: how do you find all those links that need to be changed? I would be glad to help out as much as I can with the task, but I always find myself following in your tracks ;) --Skire (talk) 22:50, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Oh I see. I thought there was a maintenance report somewhere that showed all the links that go to redirects, but this sounds like a nice systematic way to check for those links as well. Until now, I've been just correcting links I see by chance. Is there any specific page/category that you would like me to start checking? My bot is hungry for some edits =V --Skire (talk) 00:06, September 8, 2013 (UTC)
I'm starting from the bottom of the FO3 miscellaneous items, just to let you know. Should we delete all unused redirects? --Skire (talk) 22:08, September 8, 2013 (UTC)
Could you take a look at this and help me figure out what's going on? I've been checking all the pages but couldn't find the link (I think there's just one and it's transcluded). --Skire (talk) 21:34, September 9, 2013 (UTC)
I see. It purges the page and updates to show the changes made in another edit. Thanks J! --Skire (talk) 21:49, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

( Alright, I've finished all the redirects to FO3 miscellaneous items. Any particular area where you want me to start with from now? --Skire (talk) 22:01, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Tend to your BusinessEdit

That info is NOT decent is the point. It is all different strategies for the player to kill the Van Graffs.
JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 22:05, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Lonesome Road bugsEdit

Was the Lonesome Road bugs page deleted for a reason? I wasn't sure how to report it so I hope you get this since you always seem to be around.


I'm rather proud of that addition, so you can use it as a template, but I'd appreciate it if you would at least attempt to put it into some of your own words. Thank you, Kastera (talk) 16:27, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I thought about it a bit and I'm fine with you copy/pasting my addition, as long as you credit me (naturally). --Kastera (talk) 18:39, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Survival/Throwing Edit

Hey J, was wondering if you could check something for me, specifically this edit. I tried checking the GECK myself but can't find any reference to "AVThrowing" nor could I find Survival's FormID. Thanks, Paladin117>>iff bored; 19:59, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

Turns out I was mistaken, and it's not actually visible in the GECK for some reason. (I thought for sure it would show up under Help > Actor Values...) However, if you open up Fallout3.esm in FO3Edit you can find AVThrowing under the "ActorValue Information" group ([AVIF:000004BC]). If you look at the EnclaveBigGuns class you'll also see that it's third tag skill is indeed set to Throwing, with "(unused)" appended to the end. Something in the GECK must specifically exclude that skill from being displayed or selected, but the class itself still has it set, likely from an earlier incarnation of the game. That's why if you go in to examine the EnclaveBigGuns class and then hit cancel it will ask you if you want to save the changes to the class, even if you haven't touched anything. The GECK is doing the changing for you by parsing "Throwing", finding it invalid and replacing it with "NONE".
Oh, and you have to use FNVEdit to see the AVThrowing name in Fallout: New Vegas as well. Same FormID ([AVIF:000004BC]) and EditorID, different display name, short name, description, and icon. -- Yukichigai (talk) 01:40, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
Also, the skill wasn't incorporated into the GOAT, the icon for it was incorporated into the screen shown during the test. Compare the cut Throwing icon with the baseball-throwing Vault Boy on the display screen. Same art. -- Yukichigai (talk) 01:48, September 17, 2013 (UTC)

Verification request Edit

Hi J! Could you check the notable loot on Flooded sinkhole for me? I checked multiple times (PS3) and found three Stealth Boys in a safe, and only one N-C Quantum. --Skire (talk) 22:04, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, that's odd. I went down there a few times and found three in the safe. The Quantum I may have missed, but I'm positive about the Stealth Boys. Is it possible that the PC and PS3 versions are different? --Skire (talk) 22:45, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
So one Stealth Boy set to appear in one safe, and randomised loot in the other(s)? That would make a lot of sense. Thanks J =) --Skire (talk) 23:56, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Bobblehead Purge Edit

You are good and you are at times great but come on Brother. Some of those Bobblehead images you replaced are not improvements.

This is not a challenge, I just know you are better than this. Please consider the overall notable content of the location, lighting, angle ect.

  • Some folks.. Yes me included worked for those images. We deserve the same respect we give to you.

Some times new is not better is all I am respectfully saying. Please revisit & rethink some of your most recent replacements ?

SaintPain TinySaintPainJust here to help."

You are so prolific it was a challenge to find the originals.

  • Thank you for the compromise.

SaintPain TinySaintPainJust here to help." 01:47, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Forum Edits Edit

Just curious. Why are you editing the forum section? Alatari (talk) 22:45, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

I can not see this entry deletion log for lack of permissions. Is it important work? Do you need help? Alatari (talk) 23:07, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

If you have some chores I could give you some time a week. I have to be careful with my OCD I can get lost in small details and not get the important work in my daily life completed. Alatari (talk) 23:23, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Fo2 map images Edit

Hey, thanks :-) And yes, I've got FOT. Want me to make some big location screens? Perhaps I could try, although FOT is one "special" product when it comes to playing it on modern PCs :-) k78talk 21:38, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, guess that closely resembles making map images for FO2. And poking with FT Tools was fun :-) At first, toying with .mis files in the editor was a real slo-mo, but after disabling the tile antialiasing (View menu) I could move them around freely. At last I tried re-enabling the tile antialiasing and generating (Tools → Make picture) a one-piece mission 11 JPEG (≈4 Mb, 14329×7165 px); it's no PNG, of course, but close… Did you try to produce such JPEGs yourself? (I wonder, what would you say after comparing that giant Macomb PNG with corresponding program-generated JPEG :-) When 1:1, PNGs always win, but when it's a downsized PNG and a full-sized JPEG…)
Anyway, I just want to say that I don't always have much time and so won't be able to "generate" PNG puzzles regularly, that's why finding that "make picture" feature interested me so much. k78talk 01:50, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I'll take the "1-13 missions" (actually, I guess I could take some more — say, all bunker Alpha to Delta missions — since simply uploading images and adding them to the corresponding location pages infoboxes isn't that hard). And please tell me what FT Tools preferences you set so that our JPEGs would look the same.
Also, shouldn't we remove/mask the critters seen through roofs on those FT Tools JPEGs to make the images look more… normal? I've just tried to do such a thing with the Brahmin Wood image, combining the default image and its "Delete entities" variant — the result looks nice, however I don't know what level of JPEG compression it's better to use when saving the images (right now it's 0%, or 100% quality, and so the modified JPEG — whether I thoroughly "normalize" all the roofs or just remove redundant canvas — is 10 Mb while the original is 3.1 Mb). k78talk 19:44, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
Yep, I eventually came to setting the start time and then forcing it :-) As for the settings, I also check Enable Occlusions — it's sometimes useful, although after toying with it on several maps I find it rather unimportant. And I suggest you try the Enable Roof Popping, to remove some "unimportant" roofs you point at with the cursor, — and here comes another question: should we always "pop" the roofs, like I tried and did it when experimenting with the function on the bunker04 (guess it's the Delta one) map, or the roofs should always remain? We may need roofs in most cases, but sometimes — like in the Delta bunker case — they're clearly unneeded, I believe.
So, I've added the Brahmin Wood map. What d'you say? :-) k78talk 20:59, September 22, 2013 (UTC)

( Thanks… and for Freeeport too :-) I don't really check the file sizes, only try to make it possible to squeeze the files here, that's all. Guess I care more about the image quality, e.g. the Quincy image I had to save with 81% compression, which made me sad — in such cases it's possible that some details were lost; still, after inspecting it for some time I thought that the file's good and deserves to be uploaded. As for the roofs, I guess bunkers aren't the only places where it's better to remove roofs — I also checked 5 or 6 special encounter maps while toying with the program preferences and found two that look better without roofs: Coppertops and Gas Station (not that sure about the station though).

Ah, it's good I was looking for the special encounter pages and noticed your new message before clicking Publish :-) No, I only have one monitor, but I now start the program in that tiny 800×600 window and so can produce images much faster than it was when working with FT Tools in 2560×1440 fullscreen. (The program doesn't act in that freaky slo-mo fashion anymore.) And speaking of speed — guess I'd take all the special encounter maps (the ones that need new images), what d'you think? k78talk 22:59, September 22, 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I've been thinking — perhaps I should take the rest of the mission maps as well? (Starting from Canyon City, or Buena Vista if you're doing the Canyon City already.) Guess I could finish them in a day or two, and you'd be able to do your admin job. The only thing I'm not sure about is what to do with underground levels. I mean, I added the Mardin image, but it's just the surface view, and the underground is unseen. Do you know how to switch view in FT Tools? k78talk 00:46, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
Well you don't do any problems I guess :-) Zone — you mean timezone? (In that case mine is UTC +6.) I hope you know how to take shots of underground, or we're gonna have only surface images. Also, I'm gonna start updating infoboxes to look like the ones on the Great Bend and Quincy pages; I suppose every location has a kind of landmark that can be added there. k78talk 05:10, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
For some reason I was unable to make the Scott City (mission23) image, FT Tools just crash every time I start image generation. Do you have such a problem? k78talk 08:30, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

( "Being the non-beatable" isn't really the matter :-) I just move on and on. And thanks for the Scott City (upcoming) image, I'm glad the bug won't complicate the process. Don't know what to think about removing all the roofs: it's gonna take much more time than just adding the maps 'cause every image will need some "puzzle-play". But I guess I could do it… slowly. As for the Mardin map, I'll give it a try after I deal with the special encounter maps. About the location infoboxes — it seems you prefer to put the map images in the top section, moving the "general" ones to the bottom section. On the rest of the mission location, as well as on special encounter, I've done it the other way… should I change it? k78talk 15:11, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

Strange thing: I somehow managed to miss that "quit the program" of yours… sorry. I've just made the image. It turned out to be not a very complicated thing: open Zones and doubleclick one… I'll upload the image soon. k78talk 18:12, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I see that :-) "The last few" — you mean undergrounds (Peoria, …) or there's more?.. Ah, and I'm finally done with special encounter maps and location pages infoboxes. Guess after I manage to add a few underground location maps, I'm done for today. Oh, and could you please make Mortee Morte in JPEG names here? My keyboard, well… :-) k78talk 18:29, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

The Screams of Brahmin Edit

You know the best way to start off the morning? Breaking out my "The screams of brahmin" CD, or should that be "The Screams of Brahmin"? They're exactly the same, the lowercaps one can go surly (or if for some reason no, then ignore me and have a good day!). --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 08:56, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

User Avatar talk
Hello, Jspoelstra. You have new messages at Limmiegirl's talk page.
Message added 17:13, September 22, 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The reason being I've only ever found one in the entire play through of the game.

TyTyTech (talk) 23:50, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

That is entirely possible, I apologize for my rash decision.

did about 90 minutes Edit

I spent about 90 minutes on the abandoned page fixes and stopped at Fallout 3 Dungeon music. Two entries I couldn't finish because I can't enter a user's blog entry like [1]. Fallout 3 Credits intentionally broken on User:RedKnight7 because he explicitly mentions it. I'll try some more later in the week. Alatari (talk) 11:17, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Demo location maps Edit

Installed the demo, doing the images… Dirt Haven's actually ready, 3 images: default (critters seen through roofs, etc.), normal (I just cut those critters but left all the other entities intact) and no roofs variant. And it seems to me that one of the variants is kind of redundant. And it's likely the default one. I mean, if I upload both the normal variant — which is a perfect overview of the map — and the one where all the roofs are gone and every critter placed inside buildings, tents, etc. is seen, then we simply don't need the default variant, right? Guess I could replace all the maps with critters seen while preparing the no roof variants of the maps… k78talk 16:53, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Well, as I said before, adding the no roof variants gonna take a considerable amount of time. Currently I'm making the Devil's Graveyard map — and it's a rather complicated task, despite the map being quite simple (unlike Junction City, etc.). As for the Dirt Haven map, check it out. All the critters are live, present and seen through any surface, of course :-) k78talk 17:36, September 24, 2013 (UTC)
And here comes Devil's Graveyard… No "beroofed" variant this time, I just failed to create it. The "fortress" is where I stuck: too many elements behave quite differently when it comes to using Enable Roof Popping. And based on such a result, I'm afraid I won't be able to provide "roofless" variants for about ⅔ location pages as well. Still, there will likely be different level maps for Cold Water (guess I'll toy with the map tomorrow) and "roofless" variants for simple maps. k78talk 20:39, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Throwing Knife Spear Edit

Can you possibly do me a favor and check which perks affect the Throwing Knife Spear in Dead Money? Someone listed that it isn't affected by Loose Cannon in the Bugs section but frankly I find it extremely questionable considering that there's no mention of the GECK being checked in the page history in relation to the entries. Great Mara (talk) 23:41, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Ah good, someone has already contacted you. I'm afraid this issue is larger than just the Throwing Knife Spear in general. The short version is what Great Mara defines as a bug: "If it's set in the GECK a certain way and then not working accordingly, then it's a bug." This is exceedingly limited to say the least, and would exclude far too many of the bugs which have been confirmed on this wiki. I'm afraid this issue is not going to be settled until we get some manner of official confirmation on what constitutes a bug. -- Yukichigai (talk) 00:16, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
J... we just went through a very thorough process, and I already laid out a decree on the TP. I promised those involved that I would think about this overnight, and have a decision made out the next day. What you just did sort of defeats the entire purpose. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 11:48, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Chinese wiki Edit

Alas, no. A beginner at best. The main reason I ended up there was that I strayed onto while wandering the wiki's and found myself undoing 82 vandal edits, then saw it as chance to do a bit on the side, to be honest it looked abandoned but what the hey right, if there's a problem I can leave it alone... --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 17:24, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

(Just adding this on after realizing how previous message might have come across). That's not to say I won't put the effort in, fairly obvious to say I wouldn't be there as much as here but I can still watch over what little traffic is coming through, to be honest I keep worrying how much potential there is for me making mistakes, it does make change from the norm though. There's a lot of filling in the gaps to do (also a lot of building to be done!), but I'll try to get at least one thing done each day, (like here). I noticed Skire on there, I left a message the first time I visited, just a friendly hi and mentioning the vandal, but it seems barley anyone is there (even with that it still looks healthier than some of the other languages), I guess that's the effect of so many populations that speak a lot of English now, that said Russian wiki is doing very well though. Anyway, if I start becoming a pain just let me know. Catch you later. --Tribal Wisdom (talk) 18:16, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I do plan on that. It's my next project. I found that I had to play FO1 fully to finish the FO1 page, and plan to do the same with FO2, now that it seems my computer doesn't vomit all over my desk when I try to play them. I don't have a lot of free time right now to do that project though, but things should calm down a bit in the next month or so. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:51, September 28, 2013 (UTC)

Need a mod in chat Edit

I was made temp mod last night and I've been around since then, and I've got to go do some things irl and need someone to take over and my temp rights. Enclavesymbol 16:50, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

GarouxBloodline - Some Assembly Required!ForGaroux
TALK - New Features Discussion
Hey, J. When you get the chance, can you give this forum a look? I have a few finished ideas that I'd like to get some community input from, and your feedback would be appreciated.


Need to talk to you, can you come into chat? Agent c (talk) 16:52, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Legion emblem Edit

Enclavesymbol 19:13, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Talon CompanyEdit

I just wanted to start with what I said on A Follower's TP:

"Why remove this?"

This is a pet peeve of mine. The only reason needed to remove information is that there is not a sufficient reason to keep it in. It is the responsibility of the person adding in information to provide an explanation as to why the information should be added.

With that being said, you have to justify adding in the sexes. 20:56, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

We also have a voice actor parameter, but we can't use that for all characters. Simply having a parameter isn't enough to day that we need to or can fill it in. It's redundant to say "Sex: Male and Female". Those are the only two options. 21:08, October 1, 2013 (UTC)
I understand what you're saying. I'm starting to see the justification for adding it as keeping pages uniform, assuming we add both sexes for all pages covering generic characters from both sexes. 21:30, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Edit check Edit

Hi J, how are you? Could I you check the validity of this edit for me? --Skire (talk) 23:00, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Caesar's Legion Edit

Hey, I noticed that the main image used for Caesar's Legion was changed. I'm not sure if the new image appeared in-game or is considered "fan art" but if it is in-game, shouldn't we put the original image in the gallery because that is indeed in-game content. --THE NUCLEAR KING Talk 06:48, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

Serial vandal Edit

Hi. Serial vandal - [2] - on the Fallout: New Vegas quests page, I think they've already been blocked on a different IP, or more likely using another vandals edit, either way has been a nuisance. --Tribal WisdomVulturPapa-Hoatzin 17:36, October 3, 2013 (UTC)

158 to go to 150 000 edits. Keep it up, you're doing a great job. You make this wikia the perfect source for anyhting Fallout related --Peace'n Hugs (talk) 21:05, October 3, 2013 (UTC)


I'm kind of busy right now, so I just created the page in hopes that someone could roughly fill it out like what was done for the Gomorrah prostitute page. If I had more time, I would happily fill it out myself. Plus, she's a very minor character, and there's not much data on her anyway. 20:38, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

No, sorry. I'm not really sure how to get ref ids. 21:19, October 4, 2013 (UTC)
I still haven't gotten the console to work for either game, but yeah, that's how I thought it would be done. Anyway, I agree; it's cool to see that there are still characters out there whom we haven't covered. 21:30, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Double redirect fixes continued Edit

Redirect page cleanup continuation. Pickup at F.E.V. and go on from there? Alatari (talk) 16:27, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

FDR Island is an inaccessible (collapsed?) station but still on the map. Should it get a small page stating this or what? Alatari (talk) 17:28, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I suppose to follow protocol it would be called FDR Island Metro station Alatari (talk) 17:31, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

OK, so I looked over the actual Washington Metro at Wikipedia [3] and Fallout 3 universe just doesn't match up. FDR Island is maybe Farragut West station but more likely it's just not developed. Went through all the cells in Broken Steel and base game and it's not mentioned. Have the same issue for North Potomac Metro station so was considering just making their pages look similar to Platz Metro station. Alatari (talk) 18:25, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Let me know if those changes are acceptable. On till 200 edits. Alatari (talk) 18:45, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

It looks like North Potomac Metro station was nominated for deletion and deleted in the past here [4] and Platz Metro station was just missed in the deletion nominations. I should have looked more closely at the history. I'll let you decide to delete the three and redirect or not. I'll move on.Alatari (talk) 18:54, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Using my intuition on what would be a good redirect shorten term for search purposes. Alatari (talk) 16:44, October 8, 2013 (UTC)


Good catch. I didn't remember that there was a Tactics version. (I never used it much back when I was seriously playing.) ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 20:46, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Abb Edit

I'm not following. The only reason we would keep redundant article-pages is so we would improve our wiki page count. And I can't really say I approve of that. I care for our wiki, too. But that's a bit underhanded, and I'd rather improve our quality/quantity legitimately. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 20:50, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

This is a pretty good example of why I deleted that page. When writing professionally, the words/phrases should be written out fully at first, with the words/phrases being shortened afterwards to avoid confusion. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 20:57, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
As redirects, I suppose there's no real harm. I had figured we didn't want those, though, since they do affect our page loads. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 21:07, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

Rename privileges Edit

Didn't realize I had rename privileges. Now that I know if a page is in caps against naming policy but is a decent search term and the lowercase is missing I'll rename. I just try to do a rename and the collision error lets me know it already exists then I can add delete tag. Alatari (talk) 19:03, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Deletion Edit

Alright then lol np. Didn't know what was up. Enclavesymbol 19:49, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Okay sounds fair there was a grammar error you were correct

Forum discussionEdit

Hi, was wondering if you could take a look at This forum I've posted to replace our current gameplay help forums with links to the Fallout Answers wiki. Thanks. Agent c (talk) 11:20, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

Orbital Strike Edit

A have a bit of an adventure proposition for you, if you're interested. :) Don't currently have Fallout 3, and I figured you might be in the best position to get an answer. If one was to allegedly activate each relay tower around Adams Air Force Base, would the option to send an orbital strike against Megaton/Rivet City/etc. become available on the mobile crawler base, in which those options are initially unavailable to the PC?

My experience, as well as this wiki's, is that the only two possible choices are the Citadel and the MCB. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 20:25, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

I had a pretty strong feeling that would be the case. While visiting Fallout Answers, there was a question over how to get those options to open up, and it was answered that multiple relay towers had to be activated first. That's far-fetched enough to make me wonder why he'd go out of his way to lie like that. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 15:37, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Categorising Edit

Not sure why my advice was overridden, but I merely suggested that he categorise the images he was uploading. It only takes a second, and can be done conveniently while uploading. However, if they can't manage that, it's fine too I guess. --Skire (talk) 00:27, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I can understand that. --Skire (talk) 20:40, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Problems Edit

Hi J, I been having problems with my account, I don't know if it's my laptop or the account or something with the site. Yesterday my recent changes froze until I came on this morning, but it's just froze again, also my badges section disappeared then reappeared this morning but has gone again, and finally I can't see any of the game icons that usually appear at the top of content pages. I don't know if you can help, but I thought I would let you know. Thanks. --TribalWisdom(colour) Talk! 13:44, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

I can't see the monobook or mobile additions. I did wonder what's been going on, the recent wiki activity not changing is a pain, and then I was wondering whether the day counter on the badges would stop! But at least someone's looking into it. Okay thanks for confirming all that and lets hope this gets sorted soon. --TribalWisdom(colour) Talk! 14:09, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Negative for badges. Cannot see the monobook or mobile link, not sure where I should be looking. Agent c (talk) 15:39, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

I already sent in a contact bug report last night about the badges. Checked everything here, all seems OK, just not showing on user pages. I have seen some really weird little issue with some java script things. Buttons not displaying right, stuff like that. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:42, October 13, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I do. I noticed it last night. The Gunny  380px-USMC-E7 svg 16:49, October 13, 2013 (UTC)

Badge problems Edit

What's going on with the badges? Everything's missing, including the ones I was working on, and one ones I've earned. I can see that badges still exist, because it shows on Recent Wiki Activity that someone earned the "Good Natured" badge. More importantly, is this going to have any affects on my Savior Of The Damned badge? Leea (talk) 11:28, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Colour Palette Edit

Due to the lack of community feedback involved with the style switcher feature I've recently proposed, in stark contrast to the high popularity it has received for making a presence here at Nukapedia, I would like to take this chance to ask the Bureaucrats to discuss and decide upon the 3 different colour blends we'd be using should the feature pass in the community vote. Right now, it appears that the green/brownish-gold blend used as Example 2 in my forum is decently liked. I'll be looking forward to what you guys comes up with, and I'll have the community vote thrown up as soon as we get our choices in. Thanks in advance. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 15:23, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

Re: RequestEdit

Hey there Jspoelstra,

I got your message regarding the Grand Final presence on the games hub. I'll get it up there as soon as I can.

As for the recent changes and icons problem, I fear it might be an issue with JS code we were having after a recent update. But I'm not actually tech savvy enough to know. I recommend you file a Special:Contact bug report if you haven't already. They should be pretty quick about it. If not, let me know later and I'll hunt something down.

Best, Jorge @fandom(profile)•(talk) 16:50, October 14, 2013 (UTC)


Hey J. I'm not sure if you've noticed my total absence over the last three days, but I was at the annual youth retreat my church has (same as the one I told you about last year). I'm still around, and I just wanted to check in with you. --Skire (talk) 23:02, October 14, 2013 (UTC)

What the Hell, Eden Edit

While I no longer frequent your site, I'd like to bitch and moan about your user, Eden2012. I spent hours working on our Enclave article, putting together references, cross-referencing them, gathering sources, hoping that people would show a basic level of respect and give my work credit. Of course, I was wrong.

I'm talking about this, which was blatantly copy-pasted from my rewritten Enclave article. Eden did that without so much as asking me if that was okay. I don't appreciate this. My work was done exclusively for The Vault, I've spent my time writing for The Vault, and every bit of writing I've done was for The Vault. That was two weeks spent on looking for references, rewriting the article.

I don't appreciate my work being taken. Eden2012 is leeching my hard work, without having the common decency to ask me if copy-pasting content I spent quite a bit of time writing is okay. Especially when he presents it as his own work (if you check, the edit summaries credit The Vault for references, not the text; the same was with the original Enclave insignia I recreated on my own, but Eden posted them as his own work).

If you have any respect for me or my work, then you will reprimand Eden and prevent him from reposting the content I took the liberty of removing. I can safely I've never taken any article from Nukapedia and copied it blatantly to The Vault. If my attention was brought to a fact, I've always written articles from scratch because I respect your work and want our competition to rely on merit, not snatching content.

By the way, I've checked the Special:RecentChanges on The Vault and I only see the occassional miscellanous article being ported by Ant, something I officially requested him to not do anymore, because it sets a bad precedent and invites people like Eden to take content someone else spent two weeks on and copy/paste it in a few seconds as his own. I've also deleted the last two larger articles ported to The Vault as a good will gesture. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:09, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

P.S.: I've noticed your message on my talk page. If you wanted to win me over, that was the single worst possible thing you could have written.

I would point out that by the vault own pages (and our own) all work is freely available under "The Creative Commons CC-BY-NC license (link from the Vault's own website), which states clearly:

You are free:
to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the work
to Remix — to adapt the work

As Tagaziel has licensed his work to the vault under CC-BY-NC-SA there is no such thing as exclusivity. Exclusivity is alien to the Creative Commons concept.

If Tagaziel is unhappy about his work being freely available under his terms, then I would respectfully suggest he not post it to a site that makes his work available under those terms.

Whilst perhaps there may be an argument that his attribution could be stronger - linking direct to the page and creator... The idea of the CC-BY-SA license is to make work freely available for use and reuse - there is simply no such thing as leeching as long as the terms are met.

Just as Tagaziel, if he so chooses, is free to use any of our work when correctly attribted. Agent c (talk) 12:44, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Precisely. And they were credited exactly as we are credited. So this 'problem' is non-existent, not anymore anyway. Enclavesymbol 12:46, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Let us try and come to a compromise for this one. When it comes to shared works, and content isn't being directly plagiarized by breaking the terms our hosts demand, I think respect from both parties should take full precedence over what should happen. I would like to see Eden and Tag talk this through and come up with a solution to satisfy both parties involved. If that fails, I'd be more than happy to do a full re-write on the article-page in question. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 12:59, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

With all due respect Leon, when improving the quality of our wiki is being falsely contested, I don't compromise. Enclavesymbol 13:06, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
It is contested when you leech off someone's hard work, in this case, two weeks spent working on collating references, cross-referencing them, rewriting the article from practically scratch, and making sure every bit is properly cited. You didn't even have the decency to reword the post.
Well... this isn't really about you, and that's what I'm trying to say. If anyone from The Vault or Nukapedia is unhappy about copied work, then that represents our sites as a whole, and I'd like to think that some sort of mutual respect can come into play regarding decisions. In the past, we've respected each other when asked not to copy specific information, and in a lot of ways, I can understand when a lot of work is put into something, that it would cheapen that work quite a bit to see it somewhere else, as well. Just like in the past, I asked them to take down the quotations project that they copied from Nukapedia, and there was an understanding there. Or when we were asked to take down the hundreds of Fallout 3 concept-art that was painstakingly uploaded there when it was released on the Beth site. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 13:30, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
"Overhaul, credit goes to the Vault for original ref source material". Like Eden said; he credited the Vault. If you want to get huffy and revert this edit, I expect you did the same with Ant's stolen edits too, right? If I went there now I wouldn't see the audio files and changes to the graffiti page he took from us? Including the ones he sourced as ours, because going by you're logic they should be reverted too.JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 13:20, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
He did not credit it in a manner specified by the licensee. And for your information, I have deleted the Graffiti article. Again, if you believe it's "stolen", then it has no place on The Vault. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 13:27, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, it does. It just doesn't now that your only claim to any sort of legitimacy is now being credited. Enclavesymbol 13:41, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
I assume when you say you deleted the graffiti page you also deleted any images that originally came from here? And not end up recreating it exactly the same anyway? And of course any audio files too. I don't believe it is "stolen" as long as it says "this came from Nukapedia" in the edit summery or the case of files, a link in the image summery.JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 13:42, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

If you (Tag) want to rediscuss how we attribute each other then fine... However the way it was done is longstanding practice both here, and there, and we didn't have any complains from your side until now.

As for deleting the Graffiti article there, that seems a bit petty doesnt it? Not using it because it uses resources from another site that makes it freely available... Agent c (talk)

Petty? No. It's been causing problems, so I took the only possible step, getting rid of it entirely pending review.
The practice was long standing before neither side copied extensive rewrites intended to be unique content for a given site. In this case, Eden blatantly took my article that I spent two weeks writing, collating references, gathering images, revising them, and making sure they are to spec.
In short, taking two weeks of someone's work, posting it as his own, claiming he just used the references, where, in fact, he copied it word for word. It's an insult to me and my efforts. As a good will gesture, I've wiped what larger articles I could find that were porter from Nukapedia and asked Ant to refrain from porting, since it creates a lot of bad blood. I believe asking for the slightest bit of respect for my work is reasonable. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 14:02, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
Practice what you preach. Enclavesymbol 14:05, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

I also find it hilarious that Tag thinks -I- should be reprimanded, but Ant gets a pat on the head. I did the exact same thing he does, regularly. Complete with infrequent credits. Enclavesymbol 13:59, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

>>Petty? No. It's been causing problems, so I took the only possible step, getting rid of it entirely pending review.
No, no problems caused. All images and works referenced in according to our longstanding agreement. I believe you've chosen instead to let your own pride take over and thats why you've decided that you will, and I quote "personally rewrite it".
>>The practice was long standing before neither side copied extensive rewrites intended to be unique content for a given site. In this case, Eden blatantly took my article that I spent two weeks writing, collating references, gathering images, revising them, and making sure they are to spec.
Which you then chose to upload to a site that makes your work available under a creative Commons license. As such, you chose to allow people to use, share, reprint, remix, whatever anyone likes, your work, as long as it was attributed - which it was in our longstanding agreement.
>>:In short, taking two weeks of someone's work, posting it as his own, claiming he just used the references, where, in fact, he copied it word for word. It's an insult to me and my efforts.
Eden did not post it as, nor did he perport to claim that it was his own work. The only insult I see here is from you to Eden for falsely accusing him of claiming your work as his own. I think he is owed an apology from you as he never made such a claim, and disclaimed it in his edit summary.
>>As a good will gesture, I've wiped what larger articles I could find that were porter from Nukapedia and asked Ant to refrain from porting, since it creates a lot of bad blood. I believe asking for the slightest bit of respect for my work is reasonable.
Dont give me bullshit about a "Good will Gesture" Tag. Our work is freely available under a creative commons license. We not only allow people, such as yourself and Ant to use it - We encourage you to do so as long as the rules of the CC-BY-SA license is followed.
This is more about your beef with us than anything. At least be honest to yourself. Agent c (talk) 14:11, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
That's exactly what it's about. It's about 'come to the Vault for all the refs(!!)'. Enclavesymbol 14:14, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

I have a beef with people taking my work and claiming it as their own (Eden explicitly stated that he only took the references (quote, "Overhaul, credit goes to the Vault for original ref source material."), when in fact he copied it over word-for-word; this follows the earlier copying of images I made specifically for The Vault without crediting me or the source). Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 14:18, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

If you would care to point to such images we would be happy to correctly credit you (and/or the source when relevant) JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 14:24, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
I've spoken with Eden, and it seems there is a misunderstanding on his edit summary. He didnt mean to imply that it was just the references taken. Ergo, if the content is readded with a correct attribution I presume that this will solve the issue at hand? I am unaware, despite your longstanding protests here and otherwhere that we "plagarise" your work of the images you speak. Please point them out. Agent c (talk) 14:26, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
Eden should write his own article, not copy mine. He can feel free to base it on my article and references, but no blatantly copy two weeks of my work. That I will not abide and that I will contest. Because there's no point in writing anything if someone is going to come by and just leech it off anyway.
As for the image, here's the history of one and here's the other. Eden uploaded them without crediting me at all. I had to add attribution myself. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 15:02, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

( I can understand your post, Tagaziel. Spending this much time researching and creating original work and then to see it copied with just a summary comment can piss you off. I would know, because that's what it did to me when Ant2242 copied my Voice actors page yesterday. That one cost me 10-15 hours to create and then any kind of summary comment is not enough. I checked the CC-BY-SA and it also states there has to be some kind of agreement in crediting between the original author and the one who copies it. In this case, there wasn't. Eden2012 should have talked it over with Tag first and see if they could come to an agreement in crediting. If Ant for example had come to me first instead of copying without asking it would already have created quite a different mindset for me. I'm thinking if you plan to copy that large a content you first talk it over, then a better content/source referencing would be required by adding a Source at the bottom of the page with a link to the other wiki. That's a sacrifice but would be fair. Or you could make a trade of some kind, like the voice actor page traded for the Enclave military strength page. I know it's certainly not ideal but given the circumstances (2 wikis for the same game) can be considered. Jspoel Speech Jspoel 15:19, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

If I may butt in, this whole argument stems from Tag's efforts not being appreciated by 1) not being credited and 2) having not arranged/agreed upon an exchange of information with Eden. About a month ago, Jspoel asked me if he could copy over an rather significant edit I did on The Vault's Steelyard page (putting in background and layout). It didn't take me much time, but I was proud of the writing nonetheless.
I would have been just as angry and frustrated as Tag currently is if Jspoel just copy/pasted my work without at least consulting me about an exchange. He copied about 1500 characters of my work, so in the future I should be able to ask to copy a similar amount if I ask him before hand. (That's my understanding of how the site to site information exchange works.) Because Eden did not ask permission or give credit to Tag's contributions, he violated both Nukapedia/Vault understandings and CC-BY-SA. --Kastera (talk) 15:32, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
So when it's about me verbatim copy-pasting/crediting Tag's work it's a big debacle, but when it's Ant or Broccoli verbatim copy-pasting -our- work (with or without credit, it varies) it's within the parameters. Yeahno, I'm not sold on that. Chad posted the CC-BY-SA above. I violated no understandings, I violated egos and pride. Enclavesymbol 15:51, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Hey J, thanks for replying. The key problem here is not so much the use of citations (game content, like lines of dialogue, raw textures, and the such), but the fact that my work was copied without consulting me, word for word. I'd have absolutely no problem with Eden using the citations as basis to build something original, rather than taking thirty seconds to load up a page, select text, and paste it into the article. Text that, as you are aware, took me a lot of time to create.

I believe we should both adopt a policy that banned porting of content (understood as original writing and related original content created for the sites, such as article writing, illustrations, templates, and formatting), except for cases where an exchange was agreed upon in advance and discussed, such as swapping articles or an info tab citing the source was present in the body of the article.

As an example, I will have no beef with the use of citations in the US annexation of Canada article, if Eden rewrites the article so that it no longer is a carbon copy of our article. If creating original content is beyond his ability, then I'd appreciate someone else's effort.

By the way, for what it's worth, I apologize for the problems I caused and any discomfort you may have experienced as a result of my actions. It was unwarranted and stemmed from my feelings of frustration and abandonment. Hope we can be friends (and give me your Steam name already, dammit). Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 16:06, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

PS: Personally, I think Eden's disruptive behavior would warrant at least a reprimand, but that's just my own opinion.

  • The idea of the CC license is that permission is NOT required beforehand before using work as long as it meets the term of hte license
Why CC?
The idea of universal access to research, education, and culture is made possible by the Internet, but our legal and social systems don’t always allow that idea to be realized. Copyright was created long before the emergence of the Internet, and can make it hard to legally perform actions we take for granted on the network: copy, paste, edit source, and post to the Web. The default setting of copyright law requires all of these actions to have explicit permission, granted in advance, whether you’re an artist, teacher, scientist, librarian, policymaker, or just a regular user. To achieve the vision of universal access, someone needed to provide a free, public, and standardized infrastructure that creates a balance between the reality of the Internet and the reality of copyright laws. That someone is Creative Commons. For more info.
  • The CC mark is displayed on the Vault. By putting the CC mark on the Vault, The Vault is inviting all and sundry (except where the CC license is prohibited by law) to use the work subject to the terms in the lciense. The agreement is made when someone chooses to license the content by using it. I have already provided the Vault's CC link.
  • By placing his work on the Vault, Tagaziel has allowed anyone who wishes to license his work under the terms on the license, to use it.
  • As such, as long as work is correctly attributed, anyone visiting a CC site, such as ours, or the vault, is free to use it as long as the terms of the license are met.
  • Whilst asking permission, or notifying, is at the very least good manners, and should be encouraged... There is no requirement to do so, and under the terms of the license, no ability to stop someone if the answer given is no... Unless the CC options are removed from the work prior to them copying it (as the invitation to license would still be there, they still could meet the terms of the license).
  • To even suggest that we would refuse permission to another site, or another wiki, to use the CC licence in my mind outrageous. To suggest we should stop others using work correctly licensed is equally outrageous. If Tag wants to run on a puritantical campaign on his site removing works that have been correctly licensed, thats his business, but I would suggest that it is an anethema to the spirit of wikis to remove correct information that has been added in a correct way.
  • As such, I propose that we reject Tag's offer of a no copy pact as it would put us in violation of our other policies, including the CC-BY-SA. The idea that we would remove a correctly licensed piece of work is just plainly wrong.
  • This then brings us to Eden. Eden did copy work from the Vault, that is not in Dispute. That the work is available under CC-BY-SA is also not in dispute.
  • The question is, did he correctly attribute the work. We can see that he did at the very least attribute the references, as such there should be no question to their status - they should be restored immediately. The work is correctly licensed under a CC license, and if the author did not wish to do this, he should have considered this before putting it under such an unrevokable licence.
  • For the remaining content, that can be removed, and if deemed worthy, readded when licensed correctly, ie- with correct attribution. Again, if the author is unhappy, he should meditate on the CC license before applying this to his work.
  • As for the question of Sanctions, Eden says that the was attempting to attribute correctly as he has seen others do so. I do not know if he is telling the truth, but luckily our guidelines cover this situation - assume good faith. I have no reason to disbelive this might have been his intention, and as such he has done no wrong.
  • If anything, the wrong here has been done by Tagaziel. He knows that under the CC license anyone is free to use his work... In fact, when he's ranting about how we're a "Copy" to anyone who will listen (how you can photocopy a book, and have the book become a copy I do not pretend to understand), he aknowledges wikia has the right to do so under the CC license. He has accused someone of stealing his work (when he has made his work freely available by his own free will), rather than looking for a good faith answer - even when a good faith answer is given he has still continued to demand sanctions. I find this appalling.
  • I do however suggest we take up as a matter of policy recommending to visitors that we create items where possible, but that content added under license is also welcome. Agent c (talk) 20:30, October 16, 2013 (UTC)
So I assume you'd have no problems with someone copying The Hole, Apprentice, and everything else you created? After all, you published it under CC-BY-SA. Your interpretation of the license and hyperbole are malicious and abusive, intended to promote leeching the work of others. What is the point of writing something for The Vault, only to have it copied here by Eden and similar users? Unless, of course, your entire point is to leech and discourage active editing of our site. If such is your objective, then come out and say so instead of hiding behind big words. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 06:58, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
Furthermore, let me help you with understanding the legal terms of CC-BY-SA:
"If You Distribute, or Publicly Perform the Work or any Adaptations or Collections, You must, unless a request has been made pursuant to Section 4(a), keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and provide, reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing:
(i) the name of the Original Author (or pseudonym, if applicable) if supplied, and/or if the Original Author and/or Licensor designate another party or parties (e.g., a sponsor institute, publishing entity, journal) for attribution ("Attribution Parties") in Licensor's copyright notice, terms of service or by other reasonable means, the name of such party or parties;
(ii) the title of the Work if supplied;
(iii) to the extent reasonably practicable, the URI, if any, that Licensor specifies to be associated with the Work, unless such URI does not refer to the copyright notice or licensing information for the Work; and,
(iv) consistent with Section 3(b), in the case of an Adaptation, a credit identifying the use of the Work in the Adaptation (e.g., "French translation of the Work by Original Author," or "Screenplay based on original Work by Original Author").
The credit required by this Section 4(d) may be implemented in any reasonable manner; provided, however, that in the case of a Adaptation or Collection, at a minimum such credit will appear, if a credit for all contributing authors of the Adaptation or Collection appears, then as part of these credits and in a manner at least as prominent as the credits for the other contributing authors. For the avoidance of doubt, You may only use the credit required by this Section for the purpose of attribution in the manner set out above and, by exercising Your rights under this License, You may not implicitly or explicitly assert or imply any connection with, sponsorship or endorsement by the Original Author, Licensor and/or Attribution Parties, as appropriate, of You or Your use of the Work, without the separate, express prior written permission of the Original Author, Licensor and/or Attribution Parties." (Section 4(d) of the license)
The requirements for attribution are very specific and the power to determine the exact form of the attribution lies exclusively with the Licensor (i.e. The Vault and Curse). Eden, as the Licensee, has, at minimum, to credit the URL he retrieved the work from, the author(s) (i.e. me, Ant, and everyone else who contributed), and the name of the article in a clear and identifiable manner. The fact that no official licensing policy has been implemented does not mean that he is free to reuse it with no credit; it means that he has to ask the Licensor for clarification.
As a side note, I'd like to point out that you are not acting in Nukapedia's best interests. If anything, by promoting leeching you are attempting to ruin its reputation by encouraging the abuse of the Creative Commons license in a manner violating its spirit and provisions.
My proposal aims to encourage independent development and creating of original content, by agreeing to share sources (citations, raw textures, etc.), but not original content created for the sites (i.e. illustrations, article text, specific templates and navboxes, etc.). This is a reasonable proposal. Do you have so little faith in your own editors that you need to be able to copy/paste The Vault's articles to be competitive? Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 08:40, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
  • So I assume you'd have no problems with someone copying The Hole, Apprentice, and everything else you created? After all, you published it under CC-BY-SA.
Whilst I may be disapointed, I Acknowedge yes, it is under the CC-BY-SA, and as such anyone is free to use, reuse, remix, copy, etc. Whilst I would prefer and would be willing to help anyone develop their own style, that is what the license is desgined to do
    • Your interpretation of the license and hyperbole are malicious and abusive, intended to promote leeching the work of others
There is nothing hyperbole, malicious, or abusive about it. You have an invitation on the vault for anyone to license anything on it under the Creatative commons license. For you to complain when someone takes you up on that offer is patently absurd and offensive. It is suggesting you are perpetuating a fraud on your readership, when in reality you exercised those rights to fork the wiki over there in the first place.
    • What is the point of writing something for The Vault, only to have it copied here by Eden and similar users? Unless, of course, your entire point is to leech and discourage active editing of our site.
Then what is the point of having the CC marks if you have no intention on allowing anyone to use the CC licnse for your work. To place them there is to commit a fraud by implying your work is available under that license, when it is not
    • Unless, of course, your entire point is to leech and discourage active editing of our site. If such is your objective, then come out and say so instead of hiding behind big words.
My comments in no way discourage editing from your site, and if anything you are doing so by choosing to reject content correctly licensed under the CC license. I couldnt care less whether people edit over there as I have more important things to be doing.
    • The requirements for attribution are very specific and the power to determine the exact form of the attribution lies exclusively with the Licensor (i.e. The Vault and Curse). Eden, as the Licensee, has, at minimum, to credit the URL he retrieved the work from, the author(s) (i.e. me, Ant, and everyone else who contributed), and the name of the article in a clear and identifiable manner. The fact that no official licensing policy has been implemented does not mean that he is free to reuse it with no credit; it means that he has to ask the Licensor for clarification.
You have an official licensing policy in the CC-BY-SA. If you are choosing to use a nitpicky argument to work against the spirit (That people are free to use, and reuse, anything they like, subject to following the license), then you are simply using the license to commit a fraud. Since you have now identified a flaw in how you are implementing the license, I expect to see you correct this immediately. How we attribute each other was set in custom and practice, and as recently as last night one of your administrators incicated that the current method was adequate.
    • As a side note, I'd like to point out that you are not acting in Nukapedia's best interests. If anything, by promoting leeching you are attempting to ruin its reputation by encouraging the abuse of the Creative Commons license in a manner violating its spirit and provisions.
Nukapedia's best interests are not to comit a fraud upon our readership by implying the work is available under an irrevocable (subject to the terms being met) license when it is not, neither is it in Nukapedia's interest to reject work used under license. Whether Eden has attributed correctly is another question, and one that can be corrected without you blustering and asserting rights you do not have. Agent c (talk) 09:05, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
I thoroughly suggest you actually read the license you are referring to, instead of relying on your own misconceptions. Both the abridged version and the full text clearly specify that the text has to be attributed in a manner specified by the Licensor. That is the fundamental part of the license that Eden did not meet and did not ask for clarification. There was no proper credit given, which is a clear violation of the license, rendering it null and void as per section 8.
Furthermore, if your are accusing me of fraudulent behavior, then please present evidence for it. You are fast and apt to make very serious accusations without actually explaining them or backing them up with evidence. That is conduct unbecoming of a staff member. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 09:39, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
  • Either the work on the Vault is available under the CC-BY-SA or it isn't. Now depite how much you might have gained a reputation for The Vault becoming "Tagz private guide to Fallout, anyone who disagrees keep out", you are not the only administrator there... Ant confirmed as recently as last night that he believes that citing the site in a similar fashion to he does now is adequate.
  • I am now directly asking you what is the correct form of attribution required to license content from the vault in line with your CC policy. If you have an issue with how we attribute I have always been open to fixing this and have stated so sevveral times.
  • However the point of the CC license is NOT to torture it into some sort of phone-ahead-for-each-specific-thing license, no matter how much you may wish us not to use content.
  • If the work is not available under the CC license, then your site is acting fraudulently by including those marks on the site. You've claimed that work is "exclusive to the vault" - when it isn't, its "being made available under the CC-BY-SA" license.
  • I'm sorry you feel my conduct is "unbecoming", but I find you arrogantly coming over here accusing others of bad faith for inncoently trying to license your work as invited by your site utterly disgusting. Agent c (talk) 10:30, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
Since it is clear you are not interested in compromise (your libelous accusations of me engaging in criminal activity are proof enough), I have requested The Gunny to weigh in and provide his opinion. For the future, if you are actually seeking dialogue, don't accuse others of fraud and don't try to commit character assassination. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 10:39, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
  • Since it is clear you are not interested in compromise
This is simply not the case. You say the goal is to come to some arrangement on attribution. I have now directly asked you what the corect method is to attribute which would allow the work to be used under the CC license. I see you failed to answer the question, should I draw inferences on that? Agent c (talk) 10:48, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

( After what I've read on forum over at the The Vault about this I'm a bit inbetween. Maybe you are allowed to copy content without asking and contributing, but I'm against that. You always have to ask. Try to reach a general agreement with attributing and if that fails, leave it. I've always been able to copy and/or swap content to each party's satisfaction. It can work if you look at each situation individually. Now for example I'd like to have Kastera's featured articles. According the rules I can straight away copy them if I add credit to The Vault in each article in the summary box. But I don't that. First you ask and then you see if there's some kind of agreement/trade possible. And even then. Just as The Vault shouldn't port over The Hole or the News Digest over The Vault. Does that feel right to you, Agent c? Not at all to me, it's just plain wrong and I would heavily object to it. Personally, if I have to resort to copying content to a larger extent from others to make my site better, I lose all the fun of it and would retire. Adding my own work here knowing a few 100k people see it every day is (next to love for the game of course) one of the best motivators there is and it should be for others as well. Maybe because the most of you don't edit anymore to the extent I do, you don't experience it like I, or other hard workers like Tagaziel or Kastera, do. But it hurts to see your hard work copied in a minute. The list Tagaziel suggests on his forum over at The Vault look reasonably fair, but I would remove soundclips and perhaps navboxes from the exempt list. Soundclip is the same as an image, I have to find a good quote and search for it. One clip takes a considerable amount of time and deserves attribution like an image does. And we have hundreds of clips so I think The Vault understand you shouldn't copy all those, even if you're allowed to by the rules. Navboxes is a lot of data, you can't really prevent that they would look similar. The part I'm against is the Vault attribution banner Tag wants at the top of a (partially) copied page. I'm against that. That's practically inviting the user to go straight over to the competition. The only The Vault banner I'd probably be ok with is with an entire large content page like the Enclave military strength or voice actors that took many hours to make. But the banner has to be at the bottom of the page. Partially copied content is a tricky one. Depends a bit on much it is. How about a linked summary comment? With small(er) pieces and simple data a summary comment like the one Eden provided the Enclave MS is enough in my opinion. Vault banner in the image edit box is ok for me. Of course the other way around also applies. That's how I see the situation. Jspoel Speech Jspoel 20:34, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Copying TV Edit

Fuck it then, won't happen again. No point in defending something if it doesn't even appreciate itself. Enclavesymbol 16:23, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Re: AMA with AvelloneEdit

Thanks, J. It's not really that I'm busy, I just lost motivation and I wanna give someone else the opportunity to enjoy the Pollmaster position as I did. If contacting Chris Avellone for answers isn't enough incentive for me to be a Mod, then I don't know what will be. : P Dead Gunner&#039;s SMG JPG1 "Semper Invictus" 22:44, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

Our policy Edit

Hey J., I've decided to drop you a line about this. I've been mulling over this since yesterday, when it became clear that we need a consistent attribution policy. I've posted a draft on The Vault's own forum. It's intended to provide both proper credit (as it stands, noting the name of the original site in the edit summary violates the license section 4(d)) and motivate users to create original content. Hopefully we can discuss it without prejudice or accusations of criminal conduct. Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 11:31, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Then it seems we have a compromise, and I cheerfully withdraw my allegations. Agent c (talk) 11:32, October 17, 2013 (UTC)

Re: Audio filesEdit

I'd be happy to help, but I really don't know how; that's why I haven't already done anything about it. I'm sure I can figure it out if you don't get back to me right away, but do you know how do go about getting audio files? 69.l25 (talk) 19:00, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I have both. 69.l25 (talk) 19:12, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yes I do. 69.l25 (talk) 19:14, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
I'll give it a try once I get the chance. I'll let you know how it goes. 69.l25 (talk) 20:28, October 18, 2013 (UTC)
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