|Archives: #1, #2, #3, #4|
- 1 RE:Guns
- 2 Teaching moment
- 3 dod
- 4 Forum
- 5 Separate page
- 6 WW Enclave Excerpts
- 7 Confrontations in Discussions
- 8 Gala
- 9 Kendall
- 10 Power armor
- 11 Perspective
- 12 Handing in your rights
- 13 SBQ
- 14 The Whitespring
- 15 Tact
- 16 Contact me
- 17 Month's up
- 18 RE: Something happened
- 19 RE: Interloper
- 20 Reverting others
- 21 Found your office
- 22 Re edit summaries
Yeah, that one began to escalate in odd ways. I did not see the same call to violence that the last user was banned for, just more or less someone whose extreme political views had them agreeing with things other idiots had already done. Was definitely getting close to the ballpark of being worse for that user, though. Was also getting some Navy Seal copy pasta vibes from some of his comments, but as long as it was only fringe political beliefs and a healthy splash of sounding ignorant, it's the far right version of the spectrum. We have several users who have been openly communist, seemingly in an unironic and not just for the lols kinda way, so it takes all kinds. I'll watch out for him on any other threads, though browsing his history, it looks like comments come few and far between, so hopefully that's the end of it. The Dyre Wolf (talk) 01:31, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Edit on Ranger Sequoia that I wanted to talk about. The user did not know where to put the information and they said so much. The comment you left in edit summary was not appropriate. Next time be kind, leave an edit summary that says thank you and something along the lines of "see my edit for where we place the info." Not everyone knows how to edit and we need to assume good faith, take time to teach, and always treat others with respect, especially since they are coming here to help out with information that is valuable. --kdarrow take her for a spin! 02:19, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
- I totally understand. I get frustrated too and get caught up in the moment more often than I would like to admit. I appreciate your work and diligence in keeping everything tidy, included edits varying in quality :) --kdarrow take her for a spin! 19:26, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Hey, date of death is only for quest deaths and deaths that had already happened or happen no matter player choice. Since House has to be killed in some quest lines, this is why he's getting a date of death. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 17:37, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hey Dave, I think we should discuss this first instead of making the call. Great Mara already noted he doesn't think it should be added. So lets talk it out more, come to a consensus. That way we can all be on board. --kdarrow take her for a spin! 22:07, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry to confuse! No, it was just a general message to both. We need to have a forum before a large change like this is made. Thanks for checking tho <3 --kdarrow take her for a spin! 23:28, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
To make a long debate short: This is intended to be a separate page so that triggering material can be contained to a single page the very title of which gives advance warning. Hope this explains everything! Tägäżïël 18:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
WW Enclave Excerpts
The excerpts from WW on Enclave's stealthy operations post-Broken Steel. Most come from the roleplaying book, but the last one is from the The Vestiges Resurgent Enclave questline supplement that was released a few weeks back.
- The Enclave once again found resistance from the Brotherhood of Steel, which again fought to protect the world from the Enclave's designs, and shattered them in the process. The Enclave's East Coast contingent splintered even further and disappeared back into the shadows. -"History of the Enclave", pg.16
- They actually exist to keep an eye on the population and quietly remove anyone who the Enclave considers "non-compliant. -"Organization Structure: Peacekeeping and Recovery", pg.16
- The Enclave no longer has the numbers or power it once had, and its old tactics no longer work. The Brotherhood of Steel has matched them in technology and the New California Republic has them beaten for numbers. The Enclave now relies on small, heavily armed squads, with the best possible weapons and equipment, instead of dispatching a large contingent of troops. These small groups, like Sigma Squad, can be mustered and sent in to perform tasks quietly. These new tactics make the Enclave much more dangerous because it is difficult to ascertain where they might be operating. An air fleet of Vertibirds is highly visible, but a squad of black-ops veterans can easily approach undetected.
- Before the Great War, a shadow government within the United States set up numerous military bases throughout the country. Although many of these were looted or destroyed, some still exist, and make convenient shelters from the harsh environment. One such outpost was so well stocked that its current residents have enjoyed a prosperous and relatively easy life, until recently. In the last week, their communications with other settlements ceased and their scouts have not come back from routine patrols. The base's original owners have returned. -"From the Past: Story",pg. 2
If ya want to read the full Enclave questline, Modiphius released the three episodes as separate free downloads on their website. Though it's quite short on lore. Like, the Enclave bunker that serves as the major point of interest throughout the quests is never even given a name.Saxhleel12 (talk) 18:37, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Confrontations in Discussions
Just stopping by to talk about the cheese post and what went down there. I am 110% behind anyone wanting to help explain certain practices or refer a user to resources like the guidelines as needed, but please take a little time in when writing your post to come off as less authoritative. You are a mod, but you are not a discussions mod. That's not me trying to run you off or anything, but it is a little disingenuous to bring that up in conversation. If it's just being a little short with people, from time to time, I can certainly understand, but if you can take the extra two to three seconds to just come across as a user trying to help them rather than being a moderator who is going to do enforcement if they fail to comply. You can always shoot a talk page message out, like you had done with the guns post or you can hit the report button, and we'll get to it. The Dyre Wolf (talk) 21:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
- Moderating, no, but helping point someone in the right direction is absolutely fine. The most significant difference being whether the comment comes across as "Do this (or else, being implied or outright stated)" or "Hey, be sure to do this/just letting you know (coming across as friendly voice trying to help)." There's two or three regulars who I would not be surprised to see interacting with new or infrequent users and explaining a rule exists, and there's nothing wrong with just bringing it up. Plenty of wikis have different rules, many of them being far less organized than ours, so not everyone comes in with a uniform understanding. But across the platform, folks know to recognize the little badge things as mods and admin, so when it looks like commands are being given, that usually leads to resistance rather than just politely following along. If you've tried to help them, it obviously did not stick or they wanted, and a mod hasn't gotten there, you can always report the post. We'll get to it, and if the user wants to be argumentative or so forth, we can deal with them as needed. The Dyre Wolf (talk) 01:29, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Holorifle has a scope, but the main point was to show that the Gas Bomb has a unique range capability here due to the height layout.
I've been editing this site since before you came on board. Quest specific strategy (as oppose to general ones) have always been allowed. Technically a walk-through IS a strategy guide in of itself - strategy on completing the quest. Stop being so literal and personally 'goal-keeping' the articles. This kind of subjective reverting good-faith articles is why so many editors have left. Mad Dog Fargo (talk)
"You having 'been around' before me doesn't change the fact that your edit was not allowed"
Again, it's a strategy guide. There are obviously going to be relevant walk-through strategy here and there - it's all over the site. If you don't understand 'no strategy' means no general/obvious strategy, then maybe look up past precedents on edits before going to war with everyone. And who made you sole subjective decider on what's allowed? Fandom is a collaborative project.
"dunno or care if things were different back when you were around but that's how it is now, don't try and give me grief for doing my job."
A competent moderator would take into consideration whether the edits (that's been on the page for years before you came along) contribute to the site and not make decision based on personal preference and bias. Hint: You've been told this before - but assume good faith. Don't assume you know and decide everything. Discuss and edit - don't snap revert - material you disagree with. You're a moderator, not a dictator.
How old are you? I see you already have a questionable background of being argumentative and over-zealousness in deletion/editing. Astonishing that with your attitude and temperament you got the job.
- Ah, the old strawman. I'm not disputing the sniping part - I didn't add that originally but it was already on the page since 2015 - "Note that you can shoot the ghost people with an automatic rifle or holorifle," before you nuked it in 2020. I restored it to add to the fight 'strategy' that YOU opened that section with ("The player character must fight (or run) back the way they came,")
- Again, maybe address why that whole fight/run 'strategy' section is acceptable, but strategy of fighting ghost people is not? Is there an enforced rule (that mod follows) or not?
- Sorry you feel pointing out one-sided moderating is 'insulting', but maybe try not to act that way in moderating? You're supposed to be a referee, not a subjective judge. If something has been there for years, that usually mean users are fine with it. Mad Dog Fargo (talk) 18:51, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm watching him, think he's about done by now. Jspoel 21:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
- Problem is he's not vandalizing, intentions are good I think. I may block him for some time to get his attention. This is causing too much fuss controlling his edits. Jspoel 15:31, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
I know we have talked about this before, but I really need you to slow down and think about your behavior and how it may be perceived by a brand new user. Telling someone to "go over the policies and guidelines first" is not helpful. You know full well how many there are, and it is impossible to be able to tell what policies are or aren't applicable until you have a base understanding of editing. I don't want to see this in messages moving forward. From now on, I want you to include specifics when you reply to others, linking to policies if need be. I want you to explain the reasoning behind your suggestions, and above all, you need to be kind.
I want to review the recent interaction on this talk page and help you become more graceful in these interactions with new users. This is their first impression of Nukapedia and our community in many cases, and it needs to be productive and welcoming.
The user rewrote part of the robobrain article, removing transclusions in the process. I agree with rolling back this edit. What I don't agree with is your first sentence to them.
You can see that this was the first edit ever made by this user. In this case especially, we need to assume good faith. The person knows something about robobrains and sees an opportunity to share it, taking the time to write what they believe is a good contribution. In your response to them, you are incredibly curt, which is not what I want to see for first messages to new users, or ever really. You also assume they know what a transclusion is, which is a complicated type of formatting. A new user won't know what you mean by that. Here is a suggestion of how I would handle this:
What I did is welcome them, offer to help, explain what was less-than-optimal about their edits, explain why it was less-than-optimal, describe specifically what to do, how to do it, and then empathize with them being new, offer my assistance, how to contact me, encourage them, and welcome them a second time. This is absolutely how you should be interacting with those unfamiliar with editing and Nukapedia, no exceptions. You don't have to talk in the same folksy manner as me, but as a staff member here, your communication needs to include clear and polite, including specific tools and instruction on how to improve. It is literally a requirement of every user rights position here.
Users such as this one likely blank their talk page because they are embarrassed. They took a leap and attempted to contribute to something that was completely new to them. It takes courage to do this, and when they read a terse message that they were wrong, and can't understand why or how, they will feel ashamed and defensive. This is absolutely not how we want to make our new users feel. If we communicate "you made a mistake" in a friendly way, the person will likely still feel a little embarrassed, but embarrassed among friends who want to help them. There is a huge difference in how they will react to this, as we can see in their response to me using my own tactics to diffuse the situation between the two of you and explain why we don't blank talk pages.
I am not going to go further into the conversation, because the point I want to get across is that we won't have users blanking their talk pages out of embarrassment if we don't exacerbate the problem, shame them, and cause them to be defensive. Some people will feel harassed no matter what you say to them, some people will lash out even if we are kind, we can't help that. All we can control are our actions, and if handled with clarity and kindness, the user will be more likely to walk away from their first interaction with a good feeling, that even though they made a mistake, they are valued and welcome here, and that the staff is here to support them.
You have such a wide breadth of knowledge and can help so many be better editors. Teach these people. Feel for them. Help them. You are frequently the first person to make contact with these new users, and as one of the faces of Nukapedia, it is imperative that you handle these crucial moments with poise, empathy, and kindness. I know it is frustrating, day in and day out, but remember I am here to help you, too. Just like other staff help me. Its a community after all. I appreciate you, your help with this, as cultivating relationships and helping new users is something near and dear to my heart, and the only way our community can grow. -kdarrow take her for a spin! 22:43, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Shitting on newbies is unacceptable behavior.
Scribe-Howard (waster93) (talk) 23:08, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Handing in your rights
I've read through previous discussion and I can understand you've had enough for a bit. Though I do feel you deserve some thinking it over time. I'll leave your right intact for a week, then I'll remove them. Thanks for your work anyways! Jspoel 18:05, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
- Sure thing! I hope you find your way again here with the pointers given to you. Jspoel 16:30, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
It's a plot point that the scorchbeast queen can order those affected by scorched plague by just thinking to them while she's in the glassed cavern. She also demonstrates this during her fight by calling on assortments of scorched. The loading screens also state all scorched are in a hivemind and they occasionally demonstrate wordless communication. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 16:50, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry to butt in. I just removed this because there's no paranormal or psychic explanation for this. The game tells us that the Scorchbeasts use sound. Source. Speculation like this is not permitted under our rules.
- I agree with Brane/intrepid. Scorchbeasts use sound, per the Fort Defiance terminal. No ties to psykers of any kind. kdarrow take her for a spin! 18:30, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- As stated in loading screens, psychic relations are given through the direct quotes of "controlled by a violent hive mind" and "mind-controlled minions". The queen directly controls the Scorched. The Scorchbeast is only directly said to summon reinforcements, which could mean anything from calling other scorchbeasts to its aid, to summoning the queen itself. This is no different than the Flatwoods Monster, which has a similar power of being able to bend minds to its will. 126.96.36.199 18:34, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- From Merriam-Webster:
- Definition of hive mind:
- 1: the collective mental activity expressed in the complex, coordinated behavior of a colony of social insects (such as bees or ants) regarded as comparable to a single mind controlling the behavior of an individual organism
- While the terminal entry states echolocation, the BoS are only talking about normal scorchbeasts and the not scorchbeast queen who has the mind controlling influence. Once again, the loading screens state the Queen controls the hive mind, not the normal scorch beasts. Also, any kind of mind control effect is what I'd call a psychic or paranormal effect, like the psykers from FO1, was caused by FEV experiments. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 19:16, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- I think you're confusing "hive mind" for "telepathy." Those aren't the same thing. Insects have hive minds. An ant or bee queen controls the hive. Ants and bees are not psychic or paranormal.
At first I'd say keep the scorchbeast queen as a psyker, since characters/creatures from games other than Fo1 (even the Grafton monster) are on that page, and the queen is a mind-controlling creature. But probably it's better to split the psyker to keep that one for the Fo1 characters and put the rest on a Psychic page. Jspoel 17:29, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
- It's not an absolute priority. As far as I know The Pitt is almost always capitalized (I've reverted some of the edits). If you come across the Whitespring with a lowercap the you can change it, but as said, not a priority. Jspoel 18:47, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
- It pains me to have to come to you like this, but after your exchange with Kate a while back, you caused quite a stir among staff with your adament stance towards not improving your behaviour towards our newer users, and now with some new complaints levied towards you, I find myself compelled to step in and make an administrative decision since you had decided to keep your rights afterall.
- You've heard this before from Kate, so I'm not going to hit you with my full rhetoric, but I'll remind you that wiki editing is a volunteer hobby for enthusiasts, and retaining said editors is a top priority here since we're a rather rare and fleeting breed. As such, especially among our staff positions, treating users with respect, especially new users, and showing them a welcoming culture here at Nukapedia, is just as important as improving our articles, and we fully expect all of our users to treat each other with mutual decency during their time with us.
- We're not robots and I don't expect for you to never have an emotional reaction; but this is repeated behaviour from you, behaviour that has been noted and addressed by multiple staff members, and as such, I have made the decision to temporarily remove your Content Moderator rights for a period of 1-month as per FW:AP (this will be considered your second offense as per the Kate incident, in which the only reason you didn't face discipline then, was in face of your alleged resignation).
- In any case, it does make me happy to see that you've decided to stay and continue editing, and that's not something I want to dissuade even in the least. If we can work together at all to help improve in some of these areas, I will absolutely find the time to sit down with you - all you hafta do is ask. Thank you for hopefully understanding though, and my talk-page is of course open if you have any questions and/or concerns. 寧靜 14:59, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- This is in response to your recent misusage of the Edit Summary tool - something we have had to talk about before. It had been decided before after your response to Kate not to go through with any disciplinary measures since you had expressed your wishes to resign, but it seems that has changed and you are still using the site tools in a negative way that reflects badly on both our community and its leadership. This is something we had to especially take interest in since you flat out told another Administrator that you have no interests in improving your behaviour towards other users, something which was seen yet again as of yesterday.
- I'm sorry, but it has reached the point now where this behaviour merits tangible consequences, and the decision has been made with consensus beyond just myself. As I said though, if you are interested in improving here, we are willing to sit down and work with you so we can try and come up with solutions. 寧靜 15:26, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- I understand how frustrating it can be, but that frustration is something experienced by almost every other editor, almost daily when addressing the Recent Changes, and we do expect our users to control themselves as best they can and not to abuse the site tools. It wouldn't even necessarily be an issue right now, except as I said earlier, this is repeated behaviour from you, and multiple Administrators have had to talk to you about your aggressive nature towards other users.
- It's already bad enough though when a user acts that way, but as a Content Moderator, you represent the entire wiki and its community as a staff member. You are someone who is supposed to be an example everyone can look up to, and so your actions have more weight than usual, and that's a responsibility you need to take into account, otherwise, well, look at where we're at now. 寧靜 15:42, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- The behaviour of other rights-holders is something we've been discussing as well at great length, but that doesn't pertain to specifically you and why we're here now. In any case, the sentence has already been carried as of 15:19 Wikia Standard, and you are free to discuss the matter with Tagaziel who was part of the consensus and removed your rights after my initial message to you. 寧靜 17:05, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
(←) It appears I'm outgunned with this decision, coming from chat discussions betweens admins and a bc, they came to this conclusion after your general behavior over a longer period. I have not been watching you closely enough to see it myself, but there it is. Hope you see it as a learning school, a month onwards is a month older and wiser. Should only become better from now on with the pointers given. Jspoel 17:17, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
There's something wiki related you might be able to help me with. If you are interested, contact me via email@example.com. 188.8.131.52 21:45, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Your month is up. If you want your content moderator rights back you can contact me. Jspoel 13:28, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
- You have your rights back! Jspoel 14:03, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
RE: Something happened
Not as part of any rights change, where it's part of the Cmod's duties. Beyond that it's an interesting question and not one I have much experience with... since our Cmods almost never come to discussions. Anywho, I can ask around and see if that bit was accidently added when you were turned back on or if it's just part of the honor system that you would not use them unless you officially pick up dmod rights. In the meantime, just don't use n' abuse it :p
- I brought it up in SD right after you mentioned it to me, and bleep said she would look into it. Did it ever get straightened out on your end? The Dyre Wolf (talk) 13:57, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- The consensus among the admin who replied was something to the effect of "well that should not be happening." If they do not get back to you after a while, I would try getting ahold of them again. And in the meantime, just pretend those rights never showed up for you, since they all agreed it was not supposed to happen. The Dyre Wolf (talk) 14:28, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Hey brane, When it comes to the psyker page you should check the psyker talk page. There was a massive discussion on it about how psyker itself only applies to a single mention in fallout 1 and nothing more. As for race, we do not know what it's race is and saying the race is psyker is adding speculation. For all we know it could be an Old God from the elder scrolls universe. The psyker page needs to be reworked to only include the characters that are labeled as psyker (For reference only a single character seems to be referred to as a psyker in all of fallout) and create a new page for characters with paranormal/psychic powers or just change the page to be about characters with paranormal/psychic powers and list psyker on the page as just the characters that are explicitly referenced as that name. Just because something has been done on the wiki for many years, does not mean that it is correct. As for why I only did it with that page, well first, I really only deal in templates or pages that I've worked on in the past and second, I also only generally deal in 76 pages unless something specifically takes me off to another games pages, like link correction, template fixes, or a request from someone. I hope this sheds some light on my reasoning and why it was only this page. -Eckserah Head Dataminer 00:37, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
- Noticed this dispute and thought I'd hop in and give my two cents as someone who was watching from the sidelines - responding to the opening argument with "I disagree, here's why, and if you don't respond soon I'll take it as me winning the argument because you have nothing further to say" is bad form in general. "One comment followed by a rebuttal and dismissal" does not productive discussion make.
- Even discounting that aspect, it's generally bad form to assume that someone is done with a discussion on the internet just because they haven't responded to you in a while. Any number of things could have come up preventing them from getting back to you, from something as simple as them being in a different time zone or having to go to work, to more serious things like illness or other IRL crises.
- Being relatively close with Ecks I know that he's been suffering from severe food poisoning for several days and feeling awful as a result, to the point that it's starting to look like it might be a more serious stomach bug, and as such he's not been as active as usual. I'm sure he's very much interested in continuing this discussion when he feels better. -- DirtyBlue929 (talk) 17:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I would suggest in the future reaching out to ask if someone you have been discussing an article with has any additional comments, instead of interpreting their having not responded yet as agreeing or otherwise having no objections. Let me know if I can be of help. -kdarrow take her for a spin! 06:32, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Found your office
I know it is not spelled the same but I was poking through the Charleston Herald building (second floor, in case you are curious where your digs are) the other day and I spotted this sign. I was like, hey! That looks like Branebriar! I was pretty excited and wanted to show you :) -kdarrow take her for a spin! 06:13, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
Re edit summaries
You should not be utilizing rollback for anything outside of vandalism. For everything else, you need to choose "undo" and leave a detailed edit summary. Please see my recent additions to timeline as an example of how we can quickly add missing references instead of removing content someone worked hard to add. -kdarrow take her for a spin! 08:48, 17 May 2021 (UTC)