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What is the ID of this item?
is it possible to drop this and other quest items. i would rather display the violin in my house with all the sheet music then give it to agatha
- If you kill Agatha, wouldn't that make the quest impossible and thus the SS no longer a quest item? 216.99.99.45 16:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would think that it is possible to drop this particular "quest" item, since you are able to sell it to merchants, and specific merchants will give you quite a lot for it. Other quest items never come up in the Barter menu. --Webgiant 04:46, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
Conundrum[]
I try to collect all unique weapons, armor, aid items, and miscellanous items in the game. Here, I have to decide on the violin or Blackhawk. Can someone help me choose? NOTE: I will never use the Blackhawk, and is it possible to get the violin back after you give it to Agatha? I play on the 360, so console commands won't work.--With care and happiness, Supermutantslayer450' ROAR 05:08, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
- Choose the blackhawk, the violin has no physics and floats in mid-air. I can't get it on my shelves because you can't drag it. Waaah.
- both. YOU: here Agatha, have your violin and some sheet music. Agatha: why thank you young lad, have a gun, YOU: Dont mind if i do... *BOOM, HEADSHOT*... Damn, it appers i misstakably got out my combat shotguns and shot poor dear Agatha in the head, shame. Oh well might as well take this here violin. JASPER42
- The Soil Stradivarius doesn't seem to appear on Agatha's corpse, or at least not my particular 360 version. Anyone know a way you can eat your cake and have it too? Aristatide 10:48, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
Untitled[]
PLEASE COULD AN ADMIN FIX THIS? Could someone please inform a certain user that the information they keep posting about the varnish on the Stradivarius is an easily disproven urban myth? It lowers the credibility of this site to have a user continue to link such prevarications as though they are fact. Furthermore, they turned off the editing feature so it can no longer be corrected. Here are some links that will help establish that this is not information that should be propagated as correct.
http://www.classical-music.com/news/stradivarius-varnish-myth-debunked
http://badacoustics192.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/what-makes-a-stradivarius-so-special/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/01/02/violinists-can%E2%80%99t-tell-the-difference-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.224.248.98 (talk • contribs) 20:55, October 31, 2012 (UTC). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
- I have already explained this to you on your talk-page. The first link you provided is partially true. For the standard Stradivarius violins, that is. Many of his works were complete shit, also, because he was continuously trying to improve upon his formulas and methods. (This also means that your first article is partially false, since they stated that he used the same varnish in all of his years making violins.)
Your second and third articles are complete crap, as well. If you've ever been to a concert where a prodigy is playing a loaned Stradivarius; especially the ones from the "Golden Period", you'd realize how asinine it is to even suggest that true Stradivarius violins sounds just like the neanderthal attempts made by modern versions. GarouxBloodline
I didn't bother reading what you put there, as someone who can't accept facts when given proof is not worthy of debating. I have a degree in musical education, and have been to more concerts than you have likely heard of. Please, don't let science sway your foolish, easily disproven opinions, and please continue to sully the site with untruths and urban myths that a child can disprove with 30 seconds of research. If I can't get an admin to stop you, or if somehow someone who prefers fairy tales to facts is actually an admin here, I guess you can keep spreading your puerile, fairy tale beliefs all over the quest page.
It's so important to link this nonsense to the quest text...so edifying for everyone to see. Oh, actually it's utter crap that belongs with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
I've learned over time that people who talk so highly of themselves are either lying or narcissistic. :P And no, your links have not provided any proof, whatsoever, and merely touch up on the subjects of normal Stradivarius violins. I'm talking about "Golden Period" Stradivarius violins. So please stop ignoring this fact and stop providing links that have nothing to do with "Golden period" Stradivarius violins. GarouxBloodline
Right, can I offer myself as a mediator here? I know pretty much nothing about music and stratavarii except that they're some kinda fancy violin. That makes me perfect for the job as I have no preconceived notions. However I think the tone here is going to need to come down some.
I understand that the issue is something to do with the construction of a certain type (a golden era) stratavarius. Can you both explain your sides to me, and offer any proof (ideally peer reviewed stuff, but failing that I'll accept stuff that offers something to back up the claims) so I can get a full picture? Agent c (talk) 21:54, October 31, 2012 (UTC)
- I hate having to defend my point any further, as that last message from him along with his removing most of my message on his talk-page leaves me with no doubt in my mind that he's just a troll trying to rile me up, and I'm finished with him until he can actually provide me with proof to his claims. Anyways, onto explaining the matter: Antonio was the greatest violin maker this world has born so far. He spent his entire life creating and perfecting his signature Stradivarius violins that are still regarded to this day as the best violins ever made. Not one modern violin that has attempted to re-create Antonio's methods have been able to create violins that sound even half as good. During a time regarded to as his "Golden Period", he perfected his methods even further along with introducing a new and unique varnish that made his violins, (Along with a few other instruments such as the Cello) which are known as his best works, with none sounding like the other and no one so far being able to even closely replicate their workings. During studies on the "Golden Period" Stradivarius violins, scientists learned that the varnish used formed microscopic cracks that allowed the violin to essentially "breathe" as long as the Stradivarius was regularly played. (The reverberance of being played kept the cracks from healing back together, which would cause the Stradivarius to lose most of its unique sound.) While many Stradivarius violins have been ruined to gather the amount of varnish needed to determine what it was made of; which turned out to be fairly basic ingredients, no one has ever been stupid enough to do such a thing to a "Golden Period" Stradivarius, as they're owned by the great families in Europe and are only let out of their sight to be loaned to each generations prodigy violin players. GarouxBloodline
- Great. Sounds like a likely case of keeping a trade secret in the pre-patent era. Just on the "Scientists" bit, is there a link to a study or something that shows that result? Agent c (talk) 22:10, October 31, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm doing my best to find the research papers that I studied alongside my father years ago. In any case, looking at any study into the "Golden Period" Stradivarius shows that no one has been able to determine what makes them so damn unique, as modern technology allows the replication of everything from topography to what sort of wood was used and how it was treated/ages, with only the varnish being a mystery since no one has ever had a chance to test it. If you look through the links that this anon keeps providing us, you'll see that they're mostly true, as well. (Although there are a few false truths and baseless assumptions, too.) But you'll also notice that they merely talk about Antonio's standard Stradivarius violins, and never his "Golden Period" ones. So at the moment, this anon doesn't have a leg to stand on. GarouxBloodline
- Here is a link defending my information, along with reference links. I will continue searching, as this link doesn't provide the in-depth report that I'm looking for, explaining the qualities of the varnish. I will make sure to add that information as soon as I'm able to find it again. GarouxBloodline
- I'm doing my best to find the research papers that I studied alongside my father years ago. In any case, looking at any study into the "Golden Period" Stradivarius shows that no one has been able to determine what makes them so damn unique, as modern technology allows the replication of everything from topography to what sort of wood was used and how it was treated/ages, with only the varnish being a mystery since no one has ever had a chance to test it. If you look through the links that this anon keeps providing us, you'll see that they're mostly true, as well. (Although there are a few false truths and baseless assumptions, too.) But you'll also notice that they merely talk about Antonio's standard Stradivarius violins, and never his "Golden Period" ones. So at the moment, this anon doesn't have a leg to stand on. GarouxBloodline
- Great. Sounds like a likely case of keeping a trade secret in the pre-patent era. Just on the "Scientists" bit, is there a link to a study or something that shows that result? Agent c (talk) 22:10, October 31, 2012 (UTC)
THat helps nail down what we're looking at. So it is really is a specific period in a long career. The link does specifically say unknown varnish. Given that IP protection back then was pretty much "Keep it in your head" I can understand if he didn't write it down or share it with apprentices... So I guess from the other side we're really looking for something that says that for violins produced between 1700-1720 that there's something that shows that the varnish is not a factor. Agent c (talk) 22:48, October 31, 2012 (UTC)
- Just to clarify, only Antonio and his two sons knew of the trade secrets. His two sons weren't nearly as ambitious as he was, and took their father's secrets to the grave with them. And you can easily look up comparison images to see that the varnish is different than the varnish he used for his older and during his later years models. (His work progressively got worse and worse as he was nearing his end years. Many of them aren't even considered mediocre, they were so bad.) GarouxBloodline
I'm looking at Skeptoid which suggests that the secret is the wood, effected by a bitter cold period during the Maunder Minimum (Low solar activity), was stiffer (due to the reduced growing seasons); and in 2012 that a fungal treatment was designed to replicate the effects of a colder climate can replicate this, and in double blind tests exceeded a 1700 make Stratavarius. It links to peer reviewed studies. I think with this in mind, any wording here is going to have to reflect the disputed understanding about what makes a stratavarius special...
However, that doesnt address the claim that Daily play is required, much less that daily play is required because of the Varnish. Do we have anything to support this? Agent c (talk) 15:37, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
- Very interesting theories, and aside from the knowledge I had read up on many years back, I find this article to be quite plausible. (Unlike anything the anon was throwing around, which I easily found out were just top search engine results.) There are a few points that aren't answered in this article, such as:
- They made mention that they were able to create replicas that sounded as good or even better than any Stradivarius violin. I find this very questionable when especially the "Golden Period" Stradivarius violins never sounded like the other. They all have a unique sound that not even another Stradivarius violin made by Antonio could replicate. This is backed up by this source.
- While they used two Stradivari violins made respectfully in 1700 and then in 1715, they never made mention their names, nor whether or not they were actually Antonion's "Golden Period" Stradivarius violins. (Not every instrument he made between 1700-1725 was considered a "Golden Period" variant.)
- The wood used has never been a secret, as technology has been able to replicate the topography and treatments used for years, as seen by perfect aesthetic replicas being fairly common in the marketplace for a very long time. [1]
- Varnish used on the "Golden Period" Stradivarius violins. All I'm seeing is mere bias assumptions such as: "What it did show is that whatever special glue, special varnish, or special wood was used in the shop of Antonio Stradivari was probably no better than what any other top luthier has produced over the centuries."
- I have to admit though that this was a very well put together study, with many references to back it up. I still believe it to be wrong about the varnish, however, as I remember watching the video where they brought up an in-depth look into the landscape of a "Golden Period" Stradivarius violin; specifically, if I remember correctly, the Le Provigny. I'm still trying to find this research papers and video. Might try and get into contact with my father later as well, to see if he might still remember how to locate them. GarouxBloodline
Hello everyone. I'm just a random guy surfing the internet that happened to come across this page by accident. My first reaction after reading the section that is the subject of discussion in this topic was to click on the talk page, thinking that this kind of myth wouldn't possibly have remained on the page if there were any discussion at all. Well, discussions I have found, but of little quality or value. I do not want to meddle in this discussion here, so I will just briefly point out the main flaws and misinformation that I observe.
1. Varnish cannot make an instrument sound "better". In fact, it actually muffles it. You could only make it so that it does not affect the sound as much as the others. This is why violin varnishes never truly dries, unlike typical woodworking finishing, and is actually viscoelastic.
2. The numerous theories about the enhancing effect of varnish on tonal qualities have long been dated and accepted by the luthier community as psudo-science. The effect of such a thin deposit of oil and other pigments are just trivial compared to so many other factors. The varnish will have a significant impact when 1) it's applied too thickly, and 2) when it's too hard. Both of these are detrimental to the sound.
3. Stradivari is by no means the "single legendary luthier in history". That is just a result of conveniently sensationalized artistic licensing by various popular media. Ever heard of Guarneri? Il Cannone?
4. Speaking of Il Cannone, I want to come back to the topic of dormant violins. Yes, violin require constant playing to maintain its tonal qualities. Violins on display in museums are taken out and played regularly by specialized personnel. There have been many theories attempting to explain this effect, but it is a consensus in the luthier community that the varnish has little role in this. As I mentioned earlier, varnishes needs to be flexible and of the right thickness. The whole point is to minimize the effect it has on the violin, so basically if you got it right the first time, it will stay out of the way of the vibrations for the rest of its life.
5. Citations. I see in the previous discussion that either side of the party tries to discredit each other maintaining that the others have no relevant proof. The funny thing about this is that, if neither have proper references, then neither should be accepted. I advice that the information on the article be removed until further citations can be provided.
6. Something interesting to note, there have been theories saying that the reason why violins tend to sound better as they age is due to the layer of partially decomposing wood on the inside of the sound box. The slushy layer basically acts as a damper that muffles the higher overtones while staying out of the way of the lower ones, eliminating the metallic tone that is often very noticeable on new violins.
Just food for thought~ 99.237.77.32 05:27, November 25, 2012 (UTC)
- Actually, I have provided numerous sources to my claims both on this talk-page and the previous anon's talk-page. (Not to mention that I've already addressed many of the points you've brought up.) I would also like to mention that I already understand that the Stradivari violins are revered as the Apotheosis of its kind, even though there are others that can match up pretty close. What I've said is that each Stradivarius, including the cellos each have their own unique sound that no other instrument has ever been able to replicate. I'm not personally trying to over-glorify their existence on a Fallout wiki.
Some Assembly Required! 01:38, December 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Hi, reading through the talk page once again, I still failed to find any reference sources that addresses my point or actually backs up your claim regarding the tonal enhancing effect of varnish. If I have missed it, would you so kindly point them out to me?
- Now, first off: the historical backgrounds are hardly relevant to the subject of our discussion here. I don't think I need to elaborate more here.
- Second, the statement "...each have their own unique sound that no other instrument has ever been able to replicate" is trivial; replicate what? Any instrument will sound uniquely different from each other, it doesn't take a Stradivari to achieve that. I think what you meant, rather, was attaining the tonal qualities of the Strads, not "replicating" the exact timbre. If that is the case, the statement is entirely false. Let me clarify first of all about evaluating the sound of an instrument. Tone is highly subjective. Tonal qualities, on the other hand, is qualitative but has objective criteria that can be evaluated against. To name a few: clarity, projection, responsiveness, focus, and, of course, volume. All of these can now be analyzed using oscilloscopes and various other equipment, and consequently, luthier today can now build their instruments scientifically and therefore more consistently.
- Third, regarding tone, not only is it subject to differing tastes, it is also subject to the appropriateness for the scenario and pieces played. For example, you generally want for chamber music a warm, mellow-sounding instrument that allows the player to blend in and out of the melody. In this case a focused, highly projecting instrument is not very suitable for this kind of performance, the quality may be considered as negative. But this particular quality is highly desirable for concerto and solo performances, where the artist require a powerful instrument that will stand out from the orchestra and project its sound to every corner of the concert hall. So as you can see, tones are entirely dependent on the artistic consideration of the performance, what is desirable by occasions may be considered as negative by another. This is why quite a few artists (Itzhak Perlman, for example, who rotates between his Del Gesu and the famous Soil Strad) owns multiple instruments for different occasions. And I'm not even gonna get to period instruments, that is just too much to talk about.
99.237.77.32 07:37, December 5, 2012 (UTC)
- Hey, a friendly word of advice - it's Bethesda logic.
"Talk to me, somepony. ;)" 05:29, November 25, 2012 (UTC)
- Hey, a friendly word of advice - it's Bethesda logic.
I had a bast reading the constant bickering over such a minor detail. While your "discussion" did make my day (where else but the internet can such things occur?), might I humbly point out that this is the wiki for a RPG/shooter video game, not "Historical Musical Interments of the Ages". Just thought that needed to be clarified! :P Ulithium Dragon (talk) 23:21, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for that condescending comment on a wiki you've never been a part of.
Some Assembly Required! 23:24, November 7, 2013 (UTC)
Common sense[]
The "Behind the Scenes" facts are just plain wrong and ridiculous. Regardless of the argument about tonal qualities, a violin does not become unplayable because of the varnish. Maybe if the bridge is warped or the sound post fell over, or the strings are broken; none of these are likely because of the case preserving them (the strings may lose its elasticity and make a less rich tone, but unlikely to break from simply being in storage for long). Those "trivia" are not even remotely correct; I'm removing them. 209.141.172.136 05:08, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
Change reversion[]
Changed the page back to a previous edit since the article was being displayed as blank. BOSHeadScribe' talk