FANDOM


This talk page is only for discussing improvements to the page "Kiddie Kingdom."
Talkpage
  • It is not the place for general discussion or sharing stories about the topic of this article. Please use our forum for these purposes.
  • Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~) after each of your entries.
  • Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
  • Do not edit other people's entries.

Notes removedEdit

I removed a few of the notes that seemed to offer wrong information about ghouls:

"The unique case of ghoulfication in Kiddie Kingdom affected every one th same, except forOswald the Outrageous, who was thew only one to became a sentient glowing one."
Those that survived the war didn't become ghouls straight away instead turning over time unlike most ghouls in the Commonwealth who became ghouls quickly like Hancock and Billy Peabody."

All Ghouls slowly turn into ghouls due to prolonged radiation exposure for an extended period of time and not all of a sudden. Therefor the ghoulification case in Kiddie Kingdom is not unique and not worth mentioning. Hancock is in fact an exception to this and became ghoul due to drug use.

"*The feral ghouls in kiddie kingdom used to be sentient before turning feral. It is unknown if this was the final stage in a slow transformation or some other factor that turned the entire population."

As far as I know, all feral ghouls have been sentient ghouls at some point, before slowly deteriorating into a feral state. The factor that pushes some ghouls over the edge to become feral while others remain sentient is not known in general. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Litheen (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Litheen (talk) 15:35, October 20, 2016 (UTC) (sorry, forgot to sign it myself before)

"*As far as I know, all feral ghouls have been sentient ghouls at some point, before slowly deteriorating into a feral state. The factor that pushes some ghouls over the edge to become feral while others remain sentient is not known in general.."
Most ghouls became feral strait away see camp searchlight in New Vegas. And while Hancock may be an exception most ghouls become ghouls strait away see the honest hearts DLC when you fire the nukes at NCR or legion territory. (re-added note about unique transformation)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.237.171.9 (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

If we're going by the information posted on the Ghoul page, which I feel is safe to take for canon, then the standard process of turning ghoul is a slow one, with the fast ghoulifications being mentioned as exceptions to the rule instead of being the standard. Some bits of text from the ghoul page to illustrate my point

"Consistent exposure to concentrated levels of background radiation for an extended period of time will randomly result in humans undergoing a mutation/transformation into the ghoul species[4]. Camp Searchlight would also show that quick, perhaps even instantaneous transformations are not unheard of or out of the question"
-Ghoul#Description
"Ghouls were not created immediately after the Great War in 2077; the process took months or years for some. After a few weeks, their skin slowly started to flake off and crack, as well as partial or complete hair loss. In Fallout 3, Carol explains that even after the War it took a while for the ghouls to start looking like they do now. However, there have been occasions when ghouls are made instantly by large doses of radiation. For example, Camp Searchlight, where an entire base of NCR soldiers were transformed into feral ghouls except for Private Edwards by a radioactive device used by Caesar's Legion, and the ghoulification of Moira Brown after the warhead in Megaton was detonated by the Lone Wanderer (if the player chooses to do so)."
Ghoul#Biology

Seeing the above, I remain with the opinion that the slow ghoulification process in the kiddie kingdom is normal/standard and not worth mentioning as 'special' and opt for removing that note once more.--Litheen (talk) 22:36, November 20, 2016 (UTC)

"Seeing the above, I remain with the opinion that the slow ghoulification process in the kiddie kingdom is normal/standard and not worth mentioning as 'special' and opt for removing that note once more.--"

It may be the case that both forms of ghoulification are valid true (as in the case of a vault door not closing completely) but ghouls are either sane to begin with of start as feral. A recurring perception is that sane ghouls "could go feral" but was shown to be bigotry in fallout 3 and in fallout 4 the only instance of this happening was in diamond city and this was the result of institute involvement and is implied to be a set up to play on peoples fear. While you cant prove that this is not normal and I cant prove its abnormal this is however the only recorded (not hearsay of wiki theory's) instance of this happening at all yet alone on this scale justifying the inclusion of the note due to its unique nature.

(Re-added note once again) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.113.252 (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

The last few undoings of your edits were done by User:Great Mara. The kiddie kingdom itself is simply proof that sentient ghouls can become ferals, not an exception. It's ALSO bias because some never go feral at all, but not purely bias. Also please sign your posts with four tiles ~ --Litheen (talk) 17:35, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

"the inclusion of the note due to its unique nature.--"
The notes are there for this sort of thing I.E. note worthy the note isn't wrong please stop removing it because of ANY bias perceived only incorrect information should be removed or edited others wise its just vandalism. ~ -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.113.252 (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

The whole point is that these aren't noteworthy because the ghoulification process in the kiddie kingdom is a normal one. All canon indicates that the mayority of ghouls turn slowly. If you'd read further on the ghoul page at the section about feral ghouls it says their mind deteriorated due to prolonged radiation exposure, further indicating it's usually a slow process and not an instant thing. You blame GreatMara and me for clinging to our own concept of what is canon, even though I've provided ample proof of what the 'standard' ghoulification process is, even with texts that mention your examples as exceptions to the rule instead of being the rule. You on the other hand keep clinging to your exceptions and claim them to be the norm. The only thing noteworthy is that Oswald was the only one to become a sentient glowing one. --Litheen (talk) 18:38, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

It is unique for the Commonwealth if you read the note it said that. And as for the rest thats not the point I was never auguring for that I was saying and still am that the situation in kiddie kingdom is worthy of note. Also please use in game examples for "proof" of cannon while I dont disagree with the page your using it to argue for the wrong point anyway. - This is the first time we have a record of ghouls going nuts one is even aware of whats happening to them I find that pretty worthy of note. - Deleting that you think are mundane and normal are not how wikis work the notes section is for noteworthy things - Instead of rewording stuff that "someone" found objectionable or misinformed it was just removed.

Fairs fair though the procedure was followed and we are having this discussion so how would you like the note to worded to meet your interpretation of cannon as we seem to be looking at the same thing but at different levels I would prefer to settle this amicably as we all seem to enjoy the backstory. —Preceding comment was unsigned. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Please sign your posts. It keeps this whole discussion readable for other people so they know whothat said what. Four of these symbols placed directly behind eachother signs your post: ~

Back to the discussion: the whole ghoul page is based on ingame information from the whole fallout series, do you really expect me to dive through all games to find you specific ingame examples when the fallout wiki is probably the most leading site when it comes to accurate canon information? I provided you the wiki links to the information sources I based my statements on. Though I'm not even sure anymore what notes you are argueing for. I can't say if this is the first/only documented case where a ghoul was aware of their mental decay, but this is fact a different note than the one you kept re-adding. If you state 'this is possibly the only case where it is documented that a ghoul was aware of going feral' that is quite a different statement than the one where it said that this was an unique case because the ghouls were sentient before going feral. Although I do recall terminal entries or journals of people documenting their transformation progress or that of others. Sadly can't recall if this was in F3 or NV or pull up proof for it, so that's not very useful in this discussion. Deleting -mundane- notes from a -noteworthy- section is exactly how a wiki works though.. we might as wel start mentioning that ghouls have arms and legs and heads. The notes that were correct or worth keeping were in fact reworded and not simply removed. --Litheen (talk) 19:27, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

recorded instance of ghouls going feral after becoming a sentient ghouls. 124.180.113.252 19:32, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

Your last version of the notes was better before they were removed again. Although, again: MOST ghouls turn slowly, and SOME turn quickly/instantly. I also suggest we first settle the whole discussion here and find a version of thethe notes that are acceptable to all. Your constant re-adding of notes while the discussion is still going might get you a temporary ban as it's considered edit-warring.--Litheen (talk) 19:36, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

unlike most ghouls in the Commonwealth even if it is a localized exception (proven by the wiki page you cited) still make something unique. You could say its only unique in context (as seen with my examples) but its still noteworthy. 124.180.113.252 19:50, November 21, 2016 (UTC)


""* Those that survived the war didn't become ghouls straight away instead turning over time unlike most ghouls in the Commonwealth who became ghouls quickly like Hancock and Billy Peabody.""" Was your claim, which is wrong because like everywhere else MOST ghouls turn slowly and only a few undergo the quick process . Furthermore, as I've said numerous times before, this note is not noteworthy because a slow process is normal for turning ghoul. Normal things are generally not noteworthy. Had it been the other way around, then it would have been noteworthy.--Litheen (talk) 20:04, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

Was my claim, still is all in game evidence points to it. I have tried to address this but you seem adamant in your position and us repeating ourselves isnt going to help. I can see where your coming from I do but even removing myself from this and looking in I still think I'm right and having the info there is worthwhile. All ghouls who mention what happens in F4 talk about waking up as ghouls elsewhere may have more backstory but for those who just played 4 thats all they would know. In that context abnormal, in a wider view of the lore knowing what we know I still think it bears mention as well.

"Also I made some other edits on the page and notes that thanks to over zealousness on Great Mara's part content is being lost. Edit all you want but look first half the stuff on nuka world was written by me dont kill the herd because you dont like one sheep." 124.180.113.252 22:07, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.