This talk page is only for discussing improvements to the page "Fallout 3 weapons."
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Unique Weapons

I dug through the database and made a list of unique weapons to play around with. Here it is if anyone else wants to check. Some fun stuff there...

--Mirar 08:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Weapons found that weren't in the list:
000cb546 Breaker (nail board)
000cafa9 Plunkett's Valid Points (knuckle iron)
000c80bc Excalibat (bat)
000c80bb Curse Breaker (bat)
000c80b9 Love Tap (knuckle iron)
0007843d O'Grady's Peacemaker (baton)
0006b532 Law Dog (.32)
--Mirar 09:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


The database actually contains an "AP cost per shot". I don't think it needs to be "approximate" in the table...

--Mirar 09:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I don't get what's with the aproximate stuff either. I updated two weaps that I did with the actual values I found to be true in the game. I hope I'm not messing things up.


Can someone add Shots/Sec column to all gun weapons table plz? And Can someone explain why Rock-it Launcher has 666 DPS?

We've been trying to consolidate the info in these tables so that only combat-useful data appears here and in such a way that the page isn't outrageously long. I just added the DPS column last night and converted the DMG column to a DMG / shot. I'd rather not add another column unless there's a really good reason. So, what use would a shots / sec column add? You can figure it out pretty easily by dividing the DPS by the DMG / shot? For example, if the DPS is 32 and the DMG / Shot is 8, then the shots / sec is 4.

Lastly, I have no idea what's up with the 666. It's the DPS straight from the GECK. It's probably a cap on the DPS, and we know the DMG / shot is based on the junk you add. There may be some junk that can be fired very quickly (forks?). I searched for some special effect with the Rock-It Launcher that would explain that 666 max DPS but didn't find anything. Bethesda hasn't explained the calculation the GECK uses to come up with the DPS stat. If you can get an answer out of them or figure it out yourself, go for it. It IS a wiki, so if there's better data out there, it'll be updated soon. Servius 14:27, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Why not keep in game DMG of burst guns for reference? I mean it's a fallout wiki, we would like to collect as more info as possible. And I noticed that some weapons' rate of fire from GECK doesn't make sense. Are Laser Rifle and Ol'Painless slower than 1 shot/sec? They fire faster than 1 Shot/Sec in game actually.--ManMadeGod 03:02, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

One question, is Shots/Sec equal to Fire Rate from GECK? I noticed that Shots/Sec seems to have half value of the previous column "Rate of Fire".

Probably because, since the Rock-It launcher doesn't really have a stable dmg rating, the devs thought it would be funny to put 666...

Acquisition / Earliest Obtained column

This column is becoming cluttered and is inherently subjective anyway given the nature of the game! This sort of location information could, and should, be presented on the individual weapon pages - not on this main table. The column space could be used for any additional effects - like knockdown or ongoing fire damage, etc. --Trithemius 13:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

By: Yesod 16:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The only flaw which the 'Earliest Obtained' column holds is its naming convention which (as you stated) has individual bias to a free form game. Acquisition is more objective as it simply implies that the column in question will serve as a collection of known locations where users can obtain such weapon. Nonetheless, maintaining a single at-a-glance reference sheet for weapon acquisitions is far more efficient in both updating and expanding known weapon locations. Any potential contributer can quickly see all locations that are not yet listed for weapons to which he or she has discovered, and thankfully add said knowledge without editing multiple pages; as a result, attracting greater opportunity of accruing a collective body of comprehensive weapon locations users can quickly reference. I find it clear and evident how such gains helpfully out weigh inferior aesthetic reasoning.
I do however advocate an additional 'Special' column -- to be coupled alongside 'Acquisition' -- and serve as list for any special attributes of all indexed weapons.
A list of available locations, given that there is more than one, belongs more properly on the individual weapon page. This master list of weapons is a quick reference, not an in-depth analysis. The joy of wiki is that users who desire more in-depth information can easily browse to it through internal links. Let's use the capabilities of the platform, eh? Trithemius 05:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
The point of having individual pages for all the weapons is so detailed information can be put on each one. What's the point of making pages for them if you're going to put all the info on one page? Besides, having a 100kb page is certainly not a "quick reference." --Macros 05:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
That is my point precisely. The table here is a summary and a linkfarm linking to specific weapon pages - where all the details (location, perk effects, tactical advice, etc) can be displayed. It's likely to be a big job though and I'm still having too much fun playing the game to spend hours tinkering with a wiki page that people are going to revert as soon as I look away. --Trithemius 02:19, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Also, am I the only one who doesn't like the fact that conversations are spread out on multiple pages? Very counter-intuitive. --Macros 05:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
By: Yesod 13:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC):
Then all weapon locations will need to appended onto the individual page of their corresponding weapon. It shall then be acceptable to purge the acquisition column. I only undid the contribution regardless of my disposition because Macros deleted all known weapon locations without first transferring to an alternate location.

I have altered Unarmed Weapons. Specifically I have moved location/acquisition to the sub-pages and changed the column into a Notes column. This should keep everyone happy, make the table easier to read, and hopefully reduce the page size eventually. People should feel free to fix the other parts of the weapons tables in the same way. Please also remember to link to the Fallout 3 part of the page, not the general page i.e. "Power Fist#Fallout 3" instead of just "Power Fist". --Trithemius 03:16, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

I take it I don't have to complain about that the location of the weapons is cluttered, then, and that work is underway already to move it to the individual pages. Excellent. :)
--Mirar 08:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I'll be taking my time - I am doing enough tedious formatting changes at work currently. :) --Trithemius 07:15, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Why not just set up the main list for a quick view of small guns, energy wepons, big guns, others, and significant others, keeps it concise and organized. But not in a info page just provide a disambiguation page for all the weapon types where it shows the best, and easiest to find/obtain known locations. just dont stick like really non useful uniques with the ones like Lincoln's repater and Vengance. J.J.-Lopez

Melee Weapons and ST

Do melee weapons get a damage bonus from ST or does this damage bonus only apply to Unarmed? Currently the table notes that Melee Weapons are tested with a ST10 but Unarmed does not. --Trithemius 02:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Assault Rifle Damage, 50 or 51?

  • CONFIRMED 51 damage on Xbox360

I've seen the damage posted as 51, but I have 100 in Small Guns, and a CAR at 100% repair, and when I account for Bloody Mess, the base damage is 50, not 51. I've changed it to 50 and someone just changed it to 51, so I changed it back. Rather than going back and forth, I'd like to know whether there is justification for the 51 that I don't know about. Servius 13:26, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

By: Yesod 14:24, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I reverted your changes. I reconfirmed the damage and it stands at 51 with Small Guns at 100 and weapon condition at 100%. You can verify this by temporarily removing Bloody Mess:
  • Save your game.
  • Drop all your weapons on the floor.
  • In console: player.additem 0000080B 1
  • In console: player.setav smallguns 100
  • In console: player.removeperk 00094EBA
  • Check damage.
  • Reload saved game to revert changes.

Plasma Rifle

Plasma Rifle mentioned at Beth's F3 overview (as diplomacy alternative way to solve probelms).--dotz 10:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Laser Rifle codes

The Laser Rifle appears to have two working item IDs: 00074795 and 00004336. The first ID creates working rifles with a lower base damage which cannot be traded to the Outcasts at Fort Independence. The second ID creates working rifles which can be traded. --Trithemius 12:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

By: Yesod 16:46, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Irregular weapon codes should not be listed because this invokes confusion when users recognize discrepancies between attributes. This has prompted some of them to mistakenly submit incorrect weapons values which equal that of its irregular counterpart. Remedy to this situation held to deprecate all codes which spawn irregular provisions of intended gameplay. Perhaps a separate and distinctly labeled table can be created for irregular weapons.
Um, what? I agree that only the 00004336 code should be present. The item created by 00074795 is probably a test or subsequently discarded item. Trithemius 05:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


I think it might be wise to include ammo codes? Firelance 22:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. I left a blank acquisition column for anyone motivated to fill it in. Am I being silly and omitting any important columns? 02:13, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


By: Yesod 23:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Servius, you're mistakenly continuing to categorize weapons such as missile launchers as 'Ordinances'. 'Ordinance' is authoritative and incorrect. You meant 'Ordnance', which are provisions of war. Such category title is too board. 'Artillery' (a syn. of Ordnance) defines tighter bounds on weapons of any large-caliber missile delivery system; therefore, including shoulder mounted missile launchers of all variants. A category should be titled by vocabulary nearest to the contents it describes.
  • It is uncommon and unfamiliar in colloquial English language to associate specifically to missile delivery systems.
  • It is too broad of a definition for said category in question.
  • It is, therefore, marginally capable of passing as proper category title.
  • It holds tighter bounds on the specifics to contents of said category in question.
  • It holds very familiar recognition and meaning in colloquial English language.
  • It is, therefore, best suited to establish as proper category title.
Please kindly refrain from continuously undoing category title until you can provide just, rational, and correct reasoning.

Some additional semantic quibbling: "Precision Rifle" seems redundant - it is also not a term widely used. A rifle that is not an assault rifle is simply a rifle. --Trithemius 15:01, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


The FN FAL is shown in recent new screen shots of fallout 3 at the fallout 3 development website, I'm pretty sure, unless this is something else... It might not be, I'm not sure. It's definitely not an M16, but it definitely isn't the AK/Chinese Assault rifle. Is this the new "Assault Rifle"?

This is the new "assault rifle." Looking at the mesh file, it's actually supposed to be a G3 Assault File. This weapon has slightly lower damage than the Chinese version, but it looks much cleaner. RDE206 16:33, 31 October 2008 (EST)

.223 Pistol

Anyone hear about this from Bethesda or something? It's a series staple, and it will be a shame if it is not put in Fallout 3.

No info on the .223 Pistol for now. Ausir 02:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
There's a quest line in Rivet City that draws it's inspiration from the film, Bladerunner. As you probably already know, the art file of the .223 Pistol is that of the pistol that the protagonist uses in Bladerunner. Upon completion of this Bladerunner-esque quest, you do receive a special weapon, but it's not the .223 Pistol. It seems that Bethesda drew the line at that. RDE206 16:33, 31 October 2008 (EST)

add weapon values?

I think we should/could.

The vaule depends on weapon condition, so IMHO it is useless to add it if the weapon in the screenshots/videos is not in perfect condition. It might also depend on your Barter skill - I don't want to add it before I have more info on it. Ausir 14:21, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Seeing as the condition/damage ratio is a formula it might be more worthwhile to figure that out for one weapon and see if it applies to all weapons. When I added a few weapon damage values I also added a * next to it to denote it was the value of the weapon when received. DizzleKizzle 19:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
It would take some time to fully complete the value formula(s).I say leave them out for now. First you'd have to make some tables detailing the effectiveness of Barter at all levels, then youd have to make tables for each individual item at varying levels of condition in relation to different levels of the barter skill(there will be a max and min value). not to mention the condition/damage ratio. Get my drift? It would have to be some huge, most likely whole entire seperate article and I for one wouldn't be down to undertake such a task just yet, atleast untill we flesh out the more important aspects of the game first. An alternative method that could be done is to either drop value all together or to put an average value - which would still take some work.Grenade321 21:20, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Hunting Rifle

Mine does 16 damage at a little over half condition--so the damage value for it is wrong. Someone needs to find out the max damage for it, but I know for a fact 15 isn't the max damage. 19:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Small Arms skill?

Just checked. with small guns and agility maxed out, the standard hunting rifle does 26 base damage. I use the Xbox version, so i cannot console my attributes. tried using power armor to lower my agility but there was no difference in damage. J.J.-Lopez

No Gauss Rifle or Laser Rifle?

Are this really all weapons?

Laser rifle is on the list. There are no gauss weapons. There might be some other weapons as well, but Gauss ones are confirmed as not being in. Ausir 14:19, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
This may only be an easter egg, but there is a display in the Museum of Technology in F3 that describes a gauss weapon. It looks like this:
"X277 'Viper' Magnetic Rail Cannon"
Clicking the plaque yields:
"This is the only known prototype of the X277 "Viper" Magnetic Rail Cannon developed for the U.S. Military by West-Tek. Also commonly referred to as a "Railgun", the weapon uses energy cells to propel a depleted uranium round across a series of magnets discharging it at extremely high velocity. Deemed too costly to produce on a mass scale the project was abandoned in 2044.
On loan from the International Ordnance Museum these cases display the various types of weapons and ammunition used by the military in past conflicts all over the globe."
Too bad the case is empty! Antimike 04:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Console Item Codes?

I'm an Oblivion vet., and I'm finding it mind-breaking to know this is on the same engine, with the EXACT same console commands, yet I don't know any of the item codes this time around. The old Oblivion item codes work fine, as in they don't turn up any errors, but they don't do ANYTHING, either. So I was wondering, has anybody found out some of the weapon codes yet? Say... for a Chinese Assault Rifle? Or maybe 5.56mm ammo? 10mm?

I hope someone besides me is trying to figure out what they are. -_- Maltor124 21:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Found a major list of items. Just for future reference. Somebody might want to add these to the tables, as well. Maltor124 20:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Page Redesign?

Hmmm, question. Is there a way we could add edit weapon pages to add item codes? Also, are we allowed to post detailed locations for weapons, or just generic hints? I'm not really sure as to what rules this wikia is using. I'm fairly experienced with editing the WoWWiki, so I want to know if I can help here.

CptJesus 22:39, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

BOS corpse outside Vault 101?

Somebody wrote that a Ripper can be found outside Vault 101 in a BOS corpse. Where exactly? -- 10:06, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Near there(im not sure exactly as they move around a bit) there is a BOS patrol (with a robot and 1-2 BOS?) that you can kill, just ambush them by placing some landmines in thier path or something and thier stuff is yours.Grenade321 21:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Additem codes

If anyone has time, please help by adding another column with additem codes:

Ausir 10:10, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Added for melee. Some items have two itemcodes. funny is that there is a "Sledge Hammer":00004351 and a "Sledgehammer":00063FA . Also should we add the missing weapons from there ? Conradesc 16:12, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Sure, why not. Some of them might not actually appear in the game, though, even if available through cheats. Ausir 16:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
What to do about the codes for the ammo ?
For duplicate codes, only one works. It looks like there was an old database of HEX values for the items that they updated or something. We'll just have to try them all out individually, I'm afraid. Maltor124 16:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Enhancing Database

I saw a FAQ that includes nearly all special armor and weapons, but it was cached on google, so I cannot find the direct link, but if I can, there are lots of stuff that we can add. I don't know if this link works, but give it a try:


If anyone can find the real one, please update my link here.

Another link:


Also, I suggest, if we are going to ADD all of these, we should instead of making new rows/columns, for example Sniper Rifle, Victory Rifle, and Reservist's Rifle, we can include all of those in just one bracket maybe, to avoid wall-of-text and confusion Goekhan 18:54, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Melee weapons?

Where are all the melee weapons? 15:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Weapon Damage

The damage values should reflect 100% CND Ilovefallout 15:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

What about perks and stats affecting the damage? People have to remember to remove bonuses like Iron hand. Strength also affects melee damage so 10 STR should also always be assumed.

Some kind of baseline character would be nice. There are so many variables when counting the weapon damage.

10 of all stats, 100% cnd weapon, 100% weaponskill, no perks? Pipboy!

If I Recall Correctly - in Oblivion at Skill 50 there was 1.00x damage multiplier, with higher skill levels giving a bonus and lower skill levels giving a penalty. Fallout 3 lacks the Attributes of Oblivion, so the calculations may be off, but may give some idea about how the calculations work. If anyone is doing any sort of work on trying to work out the calculations for Fallout 3 I'd be interested in helping, if needed. --Trithemius 01:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Can people please not add in perk-related weapon damages? Make a seperate table on the Perk's page instead of cluttering up the main Weapon Tables with a lot of extraneous stuff. Thanks! --Trithemius 12:59, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Spiker Rifle?

more info on this please? Ilovefallout 15:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Probably misnomer for the Railway rifle, which uses Railway Spikes. That's just a guess.Fiddlesoup 03:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


What about to redirect link Missile to Rocket? J.i.gorkij 17:24, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Damage/Max damage

Uh.. idk what to do about max damage on the weapons tbh.. There's so many different variables.. I think the best possibl scenerio would be to have someone(with PC version) with 100 in energy weapons, 100 big guns, 100 small guns, 100 explosives, 100 repair and all the (+ DMG)weapon related perks, etc etc(through hacking? idk).

Then just have them "console in" every single weapon and record what thier potential MAX DMG is and change the column to MAX DMG. Its either that route or it will take a few people to play through some of the game a few times, even if using the PC cheats and the leveling glitch in Bigtown.

A formula or two wouldn't hurt either.

Grenade321 02:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd say weapon max dmg should be added when you have 100 weapon skill with that weapon and it is at 100% condition. Just use the console to add the item and increase your skill with it too.

Alphabetical Order

Someone please add the "sort feature" as seen in the armor section to be more uniform. Possibly all items should be done that way(drugs, edibles, misc items, etc). Doing something else atm, but I will try and add it tomarrow when I get off work and if I have the time. Thnx. Grenade321 05:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Col. Autumn's 10mm Pistol

The aforementioned pistol is available on Autumn's corpse in the Jefferson Monument.

AP cost

What is the source on this data? --Trithemius 05:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Sniper perk and rifles

There is an implication that the Sniper perk relies on rifles; I am not sure what the source is for this information since I've not seen any inducation of this in-game, apart from the picture associated with the perk. --Trithemius 05:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, the sniper perk just allows you to hit the opponents head in V.A.T.S. easier, and does so for all weapons. wouldnt hurt for someone to test it though. J.J.-Lopez

Chinese Pistol

Either I'm blind or we're missing info on the non-unique chinese pistol. I didn't see it on the list. 08:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Added the pistol to the table, leaving the info I don't know blank for someone else to fill in. --SkyHi 21:58, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

"Weapons of Fallout 3" Table

several uniques are missing (i.e. Victory Rifle or Jack) in the table displayed underneath each page for an individual weapon. Have no idea where or how to edit this. -- 11:04, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Butch's Toothpick

The article previously stated that Butch's Toothpick could be obtained by killing Butch in your escape from the Vault. I tried this out and its not true. I believe the earliest it can be obtained is after you return to vault 101. However, my save file is after that quest is over and the vault is now locked, and I didn't convince him to leave, so I have no way of checking if this is the earliest way to obtain it. If anyone else has a save file nearby and can confirm this, I'm not sure if you have to convince him to leave or if you can simply murder him upon your return. If anyone can confirm the earliest time to obtain this item, please feel free to edit both the Butch's Toothpick page and the Fallout 3 weapons page. Schizmoooo 12:41, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

.44 Magnum Unscoped?

Well, it seems someones found it in a safe in vault 87. Can we get some confirmation on this?

  • I seem to remember picking one up as well. I didn't think much of it as I probably sold the thing. I'll check my files now and see if I still have it, and if not, I'll venture to the vault to see if I can obtain one. Schizmoooo 16:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I happened to have a save file in vault 87 before Fawkes gets the Geck for me. I checked my inventory and I have a scoped .44 in my possession. I am going to comb through the vault and see if I missed any safe's. I seem to remember getting the .44 in a safe behind a terminal, the one where the person says he's going to "take matters into his own hands" for the death of his wife. I'll look into it now. Schizmoooo 16:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I ran through the vault and checked all the safes. They were all empty, and since I haven't returned home since my trip to vault 87 (on this save) it would mean that the .44 would have to be in my inventory. The only one I have is scoped. Its possible if there was an unscoped one I may have dumped it in a box somewhere, but I had Charon to carry my stuff, so I would not have had a reason to simply get rid of a weapon. I think from my point of view its safe to say there is no such thing as an unscoped .44 in vault 87. Unless of course I have missed a safe. Schizmoooo 17:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Well I don't truly think its possible. I'll take a sweep of the place and do a little digging to see who posted this is the first place...

Real Damage

It is fairly easy to demonstrate in game that a single shot from a Sniper rifle or Lincoln's repeater does significantly more damage than a single shot from the Xuanlong assault rifle. Based on my test results using console commands to test target health before and after, across several different weapons and accounting for talents and target damage reduction, the damage listed in the character inventory for assault rifle weapons is for six shots. Six is a rather strange number given that three shot bursts are used in VATS but it's the multiple revealed by the tests. I have not completely tested SMG weapons yet for the same behavior but preliminary results would indicate they operate in a similar fashion. Tetracycloide 14:43, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Tetra. Sorry for chaning it back to 3. I made an assumption the 6 was a typo, but your explanation above clears that up. The fact that the DMG value shown reflects the damage of 6 shots seems to suggest that Bethesda may have intended DMG to = DPS. For example, if you can get 6 assault rifle shots fired in the same time it takes to fire one sniper or hunting rifle round and chamber another, this make sense. That would also prompt some interesting questions about shotgun damage. A) you can probably get off 2 shots in the time it takes to fire 6 AR rounds, but then again shotgun blasts consist of a bunch of seperate pellets (ever see the slow-mo VATS firing of a shotgun? It follows individual pellets!). Assuming you cannot adjust your firing speed with repair, skills, stats, etc., somewhere down the road we may wish to change the interface to replace DMG with DPS and modify the displayed values if necessary. Servius 13:14, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm inclined to agree that damage is a relative measure of DPS and not actually damage per shot or even damage per VATS attack round. I'd like to do more testing in game with multiple weapon types to come up with some kind of unified theory on what DMG means. I would also agree that in the future it might be nice to include additional damage metrics not included in game. The in game DMG number probably gives an accurate assessment of what gun is best for a fire fight outside of VATS but it's a very poor metric of other situations. Damage per VATS round would be useful for sneak attackers since the sneak attack is applied to the entire round. Damage per AP would be useful for determining the best weapon to use while in VATS. Tetracycloide 16:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if you get the sneak critical for every shot in the same VATS round, unless perhaps you're using the Silenced 10mm pistol. Has that been confirmed somewhere? For example, I know from using an AR in VATS that damage is calculated for each bullet, not each volley of 3. At least in my experience, if I cue up 3 AR VATS attacks, for 9 bullets total, I don't get 9 critical hits. The first bullet grants a critical, but I think the other 8 are normal. I think this is also why a single critical from a Sniper rifle seems to do more damage than one from a Xuanlong assault rifle, even though the XAR has a higher DMG value (40 vs. 64). It could be because the Sniper rifle front-loads all it's DMG in the first/only bullet, maximizing the crit bonus. For example, in a single VATS round, most players can get 2 Sniper Rifle shots or 3 Assault Rifle volleys off. So...
Sniper Rifle DMG=40
1st (Critical) hit = 40x2 = 80
2nd (non-crit) hit = 40;
Total = 80+40 = 120
XAR DMG=64; 64/6=~10.5 per bullet;
1st volley (only first bullet of 3 gets crit bonus) 2(10.5)+10.5+10.5 = 42
2nd volley (non-crit) = 10.5+10.5+10.5 = 31.5
3rd volley (non-crit) = 10.5+10.5+10.5 = 31.5
Total = 42+31.5+31.5 = 105
I did not mean every shot queued i meant every shot in the first round. All of my testing suggests the bonus in the 1st volley applies to more than just the first bullet. Tetracycloide 02:35, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if anyone has this power, hopefully the moderator, but if our hacking efforts have enabled us to get the max dmg number from the game code itself, we should have someone input them and then lock that in, so that others can't change it. Nearly every update I get is about someone changing damage values up or down 3-6 points. Someone just changed your 6 shots for ARs thing again. I'll go change it back. Servius 13:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
It would explain something. However, the damage for the Xuanlong Assault rifle is 12 in the file, which doesn't match any even multiplier... 11 for the Chinese Assault rifle, 8 for Assault Rifle, 9 for 10mm ultra. Maybe that value has nothing to do with damage for assault rifles, but it seems to works for the non-automatic weapons... Mirar 22:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone looked/experimented to find out what the burst size is for the miniguns and gatling lasers and if one burst = DMG? Sergeantgiggles 10:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
They both fire 8-round bursts in VATS. NMA has a list of weapon damage per shot, presumably taken from the game files (here - ). A random theory for how in-game damage is taken for automatic weapons is that it's based on a certain time period... something around 40 frames. 10:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


I have NOT tested this, but it does seem that with the 10mm silenced, the enemies dont seem to notice you as much if you miss, because generally wherever you are when you hit them they then become aware to your location. As I have all ready stated, i have not tested this, I am just putting out a vauge approximation i have noticed.

EDIT: I have done a good amount of testing to conclude that the silencer does have some effect of the enemies ability to detect you after firing. I stood in sneak mode, successfully hidden, and waited to see if the target in question would detect me, witch did not happen. I then re-loaded the save and fired one shot with the un-silenced gun, and the enemy detected me right away. Did the same with the silenced gun and noticed either one of two thing for every successful test, either the enemy would take 2-3 seconds to detect you, or would not detect at all. Though I have not yet been able with any gun, to make a successful hit without killing the target and remaining hidden. Please note that I did these tests without a stealth boy. J.J.-Lopez

Weapon Damage is not consistent on all pages.

I went through the unarmed weapon section and found that almost all the value listed on the individual weapon page where lower than what is listed on the main weapon page. This is because the people who originally added the weapons damage value did not have the weapon in perfect repair and/or max weapon skill. I tackled the unarmed section, I suggest that the other damage values of weapons are checked.

Existing Weapons

Ok, so if we're removing Wanda, perhaps we should put up a second page, with the same layout, for weapons that can be summoned via the console, and remove the rest of the normally unavailable weapons here. Good idea? I noticed the Black Bart's Bane, Law Dog, Charon's Shotgun and such are still in the list, but Wanda was removed, so we need a consistant policy here. --DarkJeff 22:59, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps we can just add another sub-section to this page, similar to how schematics weapons are seperated out, that lists the weapons that are only available via hacking. That way, the weapons page still contains info on all weapons in the program, but those are shown separately to distinguish their status. If there are no objections, I'm happy to do it. Servius 02:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good to me, just note that some of the weapons were already removed by somebody. Shouldn't be too difficult to get their stats back on the PC version, though. --DarkJeff 03:19, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Done. Please edit it if I added something incorrectly or forgot to add something that was taken out a while ago. I was able to find Wanda. Servius 03:56, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Some anonymous user just moved Fawkes' super sledge from the Hack-only list to the regular list. I assume the only way to get this is to loot Fawkes' corpse after she dies, after you've escaped from Raven Rock, since you can't kill her while you're in the Vault, and you can't trade standard weapons while they're alive. Is this correct? Can you really loot NPC companion standard equipment off their dead bodies?
Not exactly. You can't get Charon's shotgun. I think you can't get Clover's cleaver either? But I'm probably wrong. I thought you can't grab Fawke's sledge but the page for the sledge itself says you can, and how. Dunno 'bout Clover. --DarkJeff 17:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
You have to ask Fawkes to trade equipment whilst in vault 87, and take it then. I don't know if you can loot it if you choose to kill her in her cell. 01:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

You have to grab it while you are still inside vault 87, or else you cant. not 100% sure though. J.J.-Lopez

  • "Updated Lincoln's Repeater damage - does 52 with 100% repair and 100% Small Guns) (undo)"
I have 100% repaired Lincoln and 100% small guns, its exactly 50 dmg (Xbox360), so is it 52 on PC, or is this guy retarded and doesn't realize that he's got bloody mess and that its adding 5% (2dmg) to a 50 dmg weapon.

Column for Weapon Spread

I would really like to have a column for weapon spread, if not Critical chance. The way I play the game is all about non V.A.T.S. and as such, the smaller the spread the better for me. I had to manually dig around to find some weapons with a spread of 0 but came here first only to be disappointed. KDI000 08:32, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I found a website that has spread and crit info per weapon. You can find it here I will start adding the spread and crit info now. I'm not sure how reliable the source is, so we may have to update it later if we find this data inaccurate. Servius 18:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I have found various websites with the same info. I think the info was gathered from modders. Since I have seen mods to change the spread of a sniper rifle from 0 to -0.3 (yes, that makes it 'more' accurate than 0 somehow)KDI000 10:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Mysterious Stranger's Magnum

Wasn't there an item code for the Mysterious Stranger's unscoped magnum listed at some point? --DarkJeff 04:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I think you're right, and I believe it's a hack-only weapon. I wasn't able to find it in the list when I made the hack-only list, so someone must have removed it before. I looked for a link to the weapon stats by name, and on the Mysterious Stranger page but to no avail. Servius 13:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Added his pistol to the list with code. It's named ".44 Magnum"MisterPuck 13:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

So it's still scoped, huh? Too bad, I kind of want to wield an unscoped version. Although 9000 damage is of course excessive... --DarkJeff 15:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Um, No it's unscopped. that would be why it's called ".44 Magnum" and not "Scoped .44 Magnum" (but thats just a guess) MisterPuck 18:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, that means the page Mysterious Stranger's .44 magnum is wrong. --DarkJeff 18:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll just hack the weapon into my inventory and find out what it looks like. BRB Servius 19:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It is called .44 Magnum and the model does not have a scope on it. It just looks like a long-barreled revolver like Dirty Harry's. It does 9450 DMG at 100% (with 100 Small Guns and Bloody Mess). Servius 19:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I cut the scope out of the picture. --AshRandom 22:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Unarmed damage and critical rate

Hi, it seems if I hold the left mouse button the unarmed punch could hold a bit and it seems to have more impact with an apparent stronger punch. I wonder if this does more damage or not. It seems only happening in the real time mode, not in VATS. Also there is a list for firearms with critical rate and critical added damage, but not for unarmed weapons.

This seems to happen with Fisto! too, where there's a 'charge up' period. --DarkJeff 19:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I assume that it is the same way as oblivion, where you can attack right away, or do slightly more damage with a charged attack. Though it may be the same or more damage with a better chance to crit or knockdown. Not to say i cant be wrong. J.J.-Lopez

New stats to table: Decay rate.

You PC guys have a quicker go at this than I will.

Condition = 100% Repair = 100% Small Guns = 100%

Count the number of shots it takes to reduce the gun from 100% to unusable.

It is on my list of things to do, but PC would be much easier to accomplish this. Either that, or I will have to grab a PC version to test on.

Not sure how this will work for unarmed / melee.


wanda and black bar bane

is that a real thing?

I believe we're working on that... Why don't you explore the game world and tell us? :)
PS. Please sign your posts.
--Mirar 09:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, seeing as their is some DLC announced, I think we should explore to try to find either of these, or wait and see if any of the non-placed uniques are in any of the new content. Who knows? Maybe Bethesda just thought it would be easier to lock them into the game for future release

Beornwolf 23:37, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone actually figured out how to get the gun into your inventory so you can use it? Servius 00:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Figured it out. In PC version, open the console with the "`" key then type "player.additem 0006B533 1 100" (without the "s). If you want to do this without feeling too guilty, get the Xuan-long Assault Rifle first. That way you're basically replacing one AR with another that does basically the same damage, just with a better skin and reload time. Servius 04:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Alien Blaster and Small Guns category

I posted this on the talk page for Alien Crash Site and Energy Weapons to explain the changes. Experiment: Small Guns 100, Energy Weapons 90, Alien Blaster Condition 100%. Alien Blaster DAM = 95. Equip Power Armor (Agility -2, thus Small Guns -4) Alien Blaster DAM = 95. Equip Tesla Armor (Energy Weapons +10), Alien Blaster DAM = 100. Conclusion: Alien Blaster is determined by the Energy Weapons skill, not the Small Guns skill.

I'm not entirely sure how to change a table, but if it's not too hard, I'll do it. Based on that data, it's certainly not accurate to leave it in the Small Guns category.Fiddlesoup 03:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

All right, as I thought, it wasn't much different from anything else. Still somewhat new to editing wikis. I'm interested in knowing where that change came from, and why it was made to this page, Energy Weapons, and Alien Crash Site, but not to Alien blaster.Fiddlesoup 03:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Odd, I always thought it was under Energy Weapons, did someone change it at some point? --DarkJeff 08:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Take out the guess work?

Why not just grab the base values from the game data file?

You will need to open the Plugin Editor, and then open Fallout 3.esm. Weapons are under WEAP, and you can figure out the rest.

You can also do player.additem <additem code> 1 100 to get them in full conditions and read in your pip-boy.
I have to check out that editor. Maybe it's possible to find out where Wanda and that BB gun is hiding?
-- Mirar 07:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Liberty Prime

Codes for his weapons?

Don't see it.
Firelance 22:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I got the weapon data from the GECK. I didn't bother adding the code to the Liberty Laser page, and didn't want to add another page for the football-esque nuke bombs he throws. I think it's silly to list either weapon on this page, but since there was already an entry, I just updated the other fields. Servius 22:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Energy Weapons vs. Small Guns


Am I missing something, or are Small Guns always better than Energy Weapons? Firelance and Alien blaster excepted. It seems like, when you compare similar weapons in each class, the Small Guns weapon always does more damage. Not only that, but the Small Guns weapons are more prevalent, which means it's easier to keep yours repaired. Small Guns ammo also seems more prevalent, and cheaper to buy from merchants if needs be. Lastly, there is no risk of setting yourself on fire when you use a Small Guns weapon.

This is what I'm comparing...

Are these fair comparisons? If this is true, it just seems wrong. Why bother inventing Energy Weapons unless they're better than the ones you already have? Are there some advantages to Energy Weapons that I'm unaware of? Someone once said that Energy Weapons were more accurate by default and required fewer APs per shot in VATS, but I compared a Laser Pistol and a 10mm Pistol and they had the same accuracy and required the same number of APs in VATS per shot. Servius 20:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I've read on some forums that there are 2 advantages to Energy Weapons: 1) they have a large magazine capacity and 2) they are 100% accurate outside of VATS. Since DMG = DPS and Energy Weapons have a higher rate of fire, I don't think the magazine size is really any kind of advantage, esp since ammo cost-per-shot is 3-4 times higher than for Small Arms weapons. The 100% accuracy outside of VATS (so, if your sight is on a target, you WILL hit it) could make Energy Weapons excellent for real-time sniping. I haven't tested this yet, but I know that Sniper rifles are not 100% accurate, since I've shot at things in the sights and somehow missed.

Energy weapons are NOT 100% accurate outside of VATS. I have tested, and disproved, this at length. The deviation may be less than for Small Guns but it is not the case that they are 100% accurate. Trithemius 05:29, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I've also read that it's a critical hit with Energy Weapons that turns targets to ash. If that's true, then it means you can kill someone with 1 hit if you crit them.

This is true -- Yesod 16:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I tested these hypothosis this morning and the results are disappointing. Servius 23:06, 19 November 2008 (UTC). Here are my findings after several tests run this morning...

  • You can crit with an Energy Weapon and not instantly turn your target to ash/goo. I tested this several times this morning with A3-22's Plasma Rifle and a Laser Rifle on the Super Mutants at the Jefferson Memorial. With the Laser Rifle, you can get an automatic crit off a [HIDDEN] attack, and you will not automatically kill your target by turning it to ash.
  • The ash effect is also not automatic with each kill, as I killed several Super Mutants with the Laser Rifle without turning them to ash. The ash effect seems to only appear for what would be a kill shot anyway, and only occurs even then if the kill shot does significant damage. So, if you whittle your target down to 2 bars of health, you won't get the ash effect. It may also be that, if the kill shot is a critical shot, regardless of how much health the target has left, the target will turn to ash.
  • The Plasma Rifle appears easily detectable when you fire it. So detectable, in fact, that even if you take your first shot while [HIDDEN], the target will see the weapon discharge before the shot lands, and this will pop your [HIDDEN] status before the plasma bolt reaches him, which prevents the shot from auto-criting.
A critical hit that kills a target seems to always turn the target to ash. This is more likely when hiding since it is automatically a critical and it also seems to do more damage than a normal critical. The Better Criticals perk combined with a high Luck and the Finesse perk results in quite a lot of ashed targets; combine this in turn with a high Sneak and sniping tactics and you can turn a lot of targets to ash - a rough estimate for my current sneaky laser-wielding character is about 66%-75% of all targets engaged. Trithemius 05:25, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Trithemius about kill shots that were criticals turn the target to ash/goo. The thing I didn't understand at the beginning was that the effect was just for show. What I had hoped was that, if you could get a critical shot on your first shot, regardless of the HP of the target or the power of your Energy Weapon, the crit would turn the target to ash in 1 shot. This is not the case. You can crit on your first shot, but if the power of that crit is not enough to kill the target outright, they will not instantly turn to ash/goo.

Servius 13:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I've also heard that Energy Weapons may have some kind of damage reduction vs. robots. After this morning's tests though, I'm even more sure that Energy Weapons are inferior in all ways to Small Guns, so I didn't even bother to test the dmg vs. robots.

I heard the opposite: i.e. that lasers are more effective against robots! Trithemius 05:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Well, they're more effective against Mirelurks at least. Or so it seems, anyways. --DarkJeff 18:03, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
A3-21's plasma rifle has higher DPS than all small guns, and from big guns; flamer (even with pyromaniac), Burnmaster, gatling laser, minigun and even Eugene. It's disadvantage is the slow projectile, but it's hardly weak. I'm getting the numbers from NMA, by the way, found [[1]] I don't know how they get their damage numbers for automatics, but RoF is accurate (you can check this by timing how long it takes to empty a clip expend all rounds in the cell). 10:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Energy weapons are quite usefull. As mentioned above Plasma Weapons in general have high DMG per shot. The biggest advantage of Laser Weapons is their low AP cost. With the right equipment, you can get up to 8 shots with a Laser Rifle in VATS. R0ND0 11:41, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

From what I can determine based on the GECK values and GECK readmes and what I've seen in the game, Energy Weapons are actually better, but the advantage seems to lie in effects outside of the simple DMG figure. First, the firing rate of the semi automatic weapons seems to be based on animation length, and the plasma rifles and laser rifles allow up to 4 and 2 shots per second respectively, compared to say 0.75 for a hunting rifle or 1.5 for a combat shotgun. If a chinese assault rifle does its DMG with 6 shots, then that's effectively doing it's DMG stat at a rate of 1.33 attacks per second. So energy weapons fire much faster. The other effect is Crit multipliers greater than one: this multiplies the player's normal crit rate. The combat shotgun, hunting rifle and chinese assault rifles have crit multipliers of 1. The laser rifle has a crit multiplier of 1.5, the plasma rifle has a crit multiplier of 2, while the unique plasma rifle goes as high as 2.5. So with 10 luck and finesse, all the normal small arms get a 15% crit chance, whereas a normal plasma rifle has a 30% crit chance. Add better criticals on top of that, and the extra damage is very respectible. Interestingly, the Railway Rifle is the exception; it has a crit multiplier of 3. 11:44, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Energy Weapons compare to the Hunting Rifle. The Laser Rifle seems most similar to the Assault Rifle and the Plasma Rifle to the CAR. The Energy weapons have much better accuracy outside of VATS, and do more damage per individual shot. However, do they have much better accuracy inside VATS? Do they have better DPS? According to the GECK...

Energy weapons do a different type of damage than ballistic weaponry. PlasmaFox 07:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Name DPS Damage / Shot Shots / Sec Min Spread CRIT % Mod Crit Dmg AP Shots / VATS Attack
Laser Rifle 21 23 0.91 0.0 1.5 22 17 1
Plasma Rifle 42 45 0.96 0.2 2.0 44 25 1
Assault Rifle 32 8 4 1.5 1.0 8 23 3
Chinese Assault Rifle 44 11 4 1.5 1.0 10 23 3

So, you can say...

  • The Assault Rifle/Chinese Assault Rifle have better DPS.
  • The Laser Rifle/Plasma Rifle are more accurate outside of VATS.
  • You can get more shots off in VATS with the Assault Rifle/Chinese Assault Rifle
    • The LR costs 17 AP, the AR and CR cost 23 AP, the PR costs 25 AP. But the AR and CAR fire 3 bullets in each VATS attack, so it actually costs only ~7 AP per shot.
  • You will Crit 2x+ more often with the Assault Rifle/Chinese Assault Rifle.
  • Individual Crit Hits will do more damage with the Laser Rifle/Plasma Rifle.

We also know that Energy Weapons and their ammo are more expensive.

Without duel-based research, with two guys with identical stats/gear firing at each other with different weapons, it seems difficult to determine which weapon is better. Based on the data above, it seems too close to call. And that was my point, that it's just plain silly that there should be any question about which is better. Energy Weapons should be significally better than conventional weapons. Otherwise, what's the point in making them? Servius 14:37, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

You are missing 3 important facts:

  • Assault weapons shoot 3 times in VATS, that means the ammo cost is the same. (1x Microfusion Cell = 3 Caps = 3x 5.56mm)
  • Energy weapons damage per Action point is ~30% higher. (Laser Rifle 23 / 17 = 1.35; Assault Rifle 8 * 3 / 23 = 1.04)
  • Even if you will Crit 2x+ more often with Assault Weapons, the over all critical damage from an Energy Weapon will still be higher (2 crits from an Assault Rifle = 16 dmg; 1 crit from a Laser Rifle = 22 dmg) R0ND0 18:37, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Here is one additional fact:

  • Engery Weapons have higher HP, DMG/AP and CRIT % MULT than their Small Weapon counter part.

This makes them the perfect choice for players that prefer V.A.T.S. R0ND0 01:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Damage per action point

It could make sense to create an extra column for damage per action point, because there is a big difference between the AP cost and the delay between shots. For someone who is using the VATS very often, the DPS is quite misleading. R0ND0 16:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

  • I'll trade you 1 AP column for a Dmg / AP column. Worth the trade? Servius 16:24, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Perhaps? I think DPA is stronger than plain AP Cost. But perhaps we should wait for a third opinion ;) R0ND0 16:35, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I spent time going through and updating the template and all the individual weapon pages with AP. So we can take it off of this page. I favor a Dmg / AP column over plain AP, though, the AP column is tiny, we could just squeeze in Dmg / AP column in next to it. Either way, I'd like to see a Dmg / AP column, I've already got some ratios written down, but, the formatting isn't right for this page its just No.Shots / 140 AP (far as I know 140 is the most base you can squeeze out of any character build, speaking of AP, I updated the action points page with a bonus table).
    • Well, that's another YES vote and still no NO votes yet. I'll wait a few more days before making this change. Servius 20:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
We should axe the V:W ratio column before we go taking out a major base stat like Action Points.

Colonel Autumn's Laser Pistol

I don't know who changed this custom Laser Pistol to show 12 damage, but when created using the console, it has 44 damage. It also can only be obtained on Col Autumn's corpse after the final fight. Making it impossible to gain for use in the wasteland without console cheats.

  • If you read the top of the main page, it says that we have recently changed the way we're displaying damage. Instead of using the DAM stat shown in the in-game interface, we're using the Damage (per shot/hit) and DPS stats from the GECK as they provide more useful information for comparing different weapons. For example, Dmg/Shot is very useful for slower but harder-hitting weapons like rifles or the sledgehammer. DPS is very useful for faster weapons like assault rifles and knives. It is also a simple common basis of measure (1 second) that everyone understands, as opposed to the unknown basis the game uses to calculate the DAM stat. Anyway, the GECK says this pistol does x damage per shot, but it's automatic and fires more tha one shot per second, so it does do considerable damage. Regardless, the Dmg/Shot variable is correct (unless it's been changed again) and we're no longer reporting the DAM stat from the interface for the above reasons. Servius 19:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Weight, Value, and V:W Columns

A few days ago I added a V:W column to help players make some decisions about which weapons are worth looting for resale (those with high Value-to-Weight ratios). IMO, the V:W ratio contains the use of the Value column and adds more utility. Thus, I think we can get rid of the Value column altogether. Before I do that, I'll wait a few days to see if there are any objections. Servius 20:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, now that we have V:W that frees us up to swap either value, or weight for the new Dmg/AP column, without having to get rid of AP. The more I think about it, the more I realize that we can't just get rid of the AP column. The weapons list is supposed to show the major "weapon attributes" not just a bunch of comparison ratios. --AshRandom 00:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, I think what we're trying to do is make the info we show more useful. For example, DPS is more useful than DAM (since we have no idea what it's based on) and made the RoF column unnecessary. While I think there's a case for keeping the weight column (Because the weight of the weapon may affect whether players with low Strength want it), I think the Value column is only useful in an economic sense, and if that's the case, then the V:W column makes the Value column redundant as you don't only ask the total value of something when you're deciding whether to lug it back to town, you actually care about the V:W ratio when making that decision to take it or leave it. I can see some merit to leaving the AP column in there because, as with the Weight column, the pure AP column does let some people who know exactly how much AP they have make some decisions about whether it's worth it. So, I agree that we should keep the AP column but nix the Value column. Servius 01:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I agree entirely, and I must say you've brought a lot of great stat information to this page already. DMG/AP is great, its key to determining which weapons really perform best in VATS. --AshRandom 01:35, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I appreciate that. I'll get to work replacing the Value column with DMG/AP. I'll start with the single-shot/hit weapons (like rifles ane melee stuff) and hold off a bit on automatic weapons as it gets trickier with them. Servius 14:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I suppose you'd have to use the "in-game DAM" for burst weapons and just pretend that all of the shots are going to hit. --AshRandom 15:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Done. I used the GECK's Damage / attack stat divided by the AP. I got them all except for Colonel Autumn's laser pistol because it's automatic so we'd need to know how many laser bolts it fires per VATS attack to determine the DMG / AP. Servius 16:12, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Skill level / SPECIAL attributes.

It might be worth making it clear in the intro paragraph, (or over each table), what skill level and SPECIAL attributes are used to measure the damage of these weapons. Since you mention strength and melee weapons, what about endurance, agility and perception? How does an increase in the SPECIAL attribute level affect damage of each related weapon type. I couldn't see that information if it is there.

Added some additional language to the top of the page stating that melee weapons are the only ones affected by your SPECIAL stats. All ranged weapons (including explosives) only consider the weapon condition and your skill to determine their damage stats (we don't include the effects of things like Psycho or Bloody Mess here, even though we do talk about Pyromaniac and the perk that boosts explosive damage). Servius 19:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Really? When I use an item to reduce my perception, my energy weapon skills go down, and so does the damage I can do with that weapon. You still don't say at what skill level the damage stated on the charts is achieved.


I like it, are you going to group the energy weapons too? --AshRandom 00:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I can merge the Energy Weapons this evening. Servius 01:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I merged Energy Weapons together in one edit, and then merged them with the Small Guns in a separate edit. That way you can undo the merging of the different skill lines if you didn't want to merge that far. I've been looking at adding the Big Guns to the list, but 2 issues present themselves:

  • We'll have to add another column to note which skill line each weapon belongs to. Right now you can easily tell by the ammo type, but Big Guns include the minigun (which uses conventional gunpowder ammo) and the gatling laser (which uses energy-based ammo.
  • The AoE Big Guns still won't fit well in such a merge. Right now I favor merging the direct fire Big Guns with the Small Guns and Energy Weapons list but leaving the AoE Big Guns in their own separate list.

I won't do anything to the Big Guns for a day or so, hoping for suggestions/guidance from other users. Servius 02:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

If we keep each table to one skill set, its probably for the best. --AshRandom 02:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
For tonight, I'm done making changes :-) IMO, I think Small Guns and Energy Weapons aren't so bad merged because they fill the same role, just with different tech. I do want to be able to sort a list by DPS and see how Small Guns Rifles and Energy Weapon Rifles match up. Servius 03:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Actually, that's a good point. --AshRandom 03:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I disagree with the merge. Each skill set should remain under a separate heading. Maybe create another page with all weapons in one table, linked from this one? Ausir 12:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

GECK Question

Has anyone found a line describing an item's total hitpoints, or durability, or a durability factor, or anything? I wish we had some hard data. --AshRandom 00:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

There is such a variable, it's called Health. Perhaps, after the merge, I can add that in. In the interest of space, since a merged list will have only one header row, I can make it 2 lines high, thereby making some columns narrower, creating space for the new HP column. Servius 01:29, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
YAY! --AshRandom 02:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

HP Values Mean nothing unless we know how much hp is lost per shot. What use is twice the hp if it also takes twice the hp per shot. 14:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I finally understand what you were saying, how much does each shot cost the gun... I was thinking you meant actually being hit by enemy fire... Yeah that's a good question, but, on the plus side regardless of how much each shot costs the weapon, we can still compare guns in the same category *at the very least*. Like: Sniper Rifle 100HP, Reservists Rifle 150HP, Victory Rifle 300HP. --AshRandom 15:26, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't able to find the equations relating to the Health stat on the GECK Wiki, so I can't answer the questions of A) how many bullets can you shoot into an NPC's sniper rifle until it breaks/gets blown out of their hands or B) how much damage does firing 1 bullet do to a weapon's Health. My best guess is that firing 1 round causes a fixed amount of damage to every weapon (perhaps 1 HP, but I'm just guessing). I also believe that weapons are unarmored targets, so if a weapon has 80 health, and you crit it with a sniper shot that does 40+40, you'll break the weapon. And even though we don't yet have the equation for weapon decay, you can clearly see why the Silenced 10mm Pistol and Sniper Rifle seem to break down so easily relative to other weapons. Servius 19:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Item HP

Hey Servius, thanks for the info, I've updated the weapon template and distributed the item HP data you provided for all Small Guns and Energy Weapons. We're going to do unarmed, melee, etc yeah? Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 18:36, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Do I have to? :-) I never use them, so my desire to mine the GECK for the data and add it here lessens as I get away from things that chuck bolts. It seems only fair though. I'll get on it now. Give me a few... Servius 22:15, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Attaboy! Hehehe! You know I agree with you, I don't use hand to hand much either, I think its just perfectionism that makes me want uniformity enough to put in the effort. ;D Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 22:43, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, ball's rolling now. I'm gonna take a crack at the Explosives now. Wouldn't you know the DMG / Hit is way higher than the reported DAM. I really wish I knew what the equation was for the in-game interface's DAM stat. Oh well... Servius
I'm following up behind you, I've got unarmed, melee and big guns done. And yeah, the "in-game DAM" is beyond annoying. We need to display it to keep all the anons from screwing up our pages every hour on the hour, but, it really has no realistic bearing on the kind of punishment it does in game. By the numbers the reservists rifle was being shown to be significantly under powered and the Lincoln appeared to do similar damage to the Blackhawk when its in fact drastically weaker (37DPS vs 100DPS). Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 01:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of effecting a real number, we should consider factoring in critical multipliers. We could assume 5 luck, like with 5 strength for melee, or show the max and min 1%-15% to give consideration to finesse. "Crit-Modified-DPS" = (DPS + ((Crit%Mult * LUCK) * DPS)). At the very least it would prove-out how much more damaging: stabhappy, the deathclaw, the sniper rifle, etc are than they currently appear to be. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 01:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


I've been hearing about this for a while,but don't know how to get to it,im playing the PC version so can someone tell me the console command to get in and out of it

Suggestion to show a modified DPS that accounts for Critical Hits

AshRandom has suggested either adding to the existing GECK-generated DPS value or adding a new column variable, that reflects the impact critical hits have on long-term DPS. I think it's a neat idea and am happy to start tinkering in Excel to built a calc that we can use for all the weapons. Since, in my own odd way, I get kinda jazzed about doing this kind of stuff, I'll go ahead and start on building the calcuation. Before we add another column of data, I wanted to open the suggestion up for comment. And actually, yet another alternative would be to replace the 2 Crit-related columns we currently have with this Crit-based DPS-modifier. Anyway, I'll get started on the calc and users can chime in about what they think about this idea. Servius 02:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

A critical point: god that was a horrible pun -- lol -- "Crit-Modified-DPS" = (DPS + ((Crit%Mult * LUCK) * DPS)) doesn't take into account weapons that have specifically higher crit bonuses (more than the normal +1*DPS). Since these are in dmg/shot format we can just take the ratio of the bonus vs the base dmg and add that bonus % in (keeping the number in DPS format without having to express it in Dmg/shot terms). Could also use that approach to express the extra damage from better criticals & ninja perks.Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 02:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I've submitted a request to the GECK wiki people to see if the GECK-calculated DPS stat already takes critical hits into account or not. In case it doesn't, I'll keep on the equation, but just keep in mind it may already account for that. Actually, it looks like it may. For example, the Sniper Rifle has a DMG / SHOT of 40 but a DPS of 42. The only way that's possible, without taking crits into account, is if you could fire a bullet and reload another in under 1 second. Since I'm nearly certain the RoF isn't that fast, especially for the sniper rifle, it is looking more likely that the GECK's DPS already takes critical hit data into account.Servius 02:19, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, I have the calculation ready, but I'll wait to see what we hear about whether the GECK's DPS stat already takes critical hit data into account or not. Servius 02:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Its good to check. I mean we've all played fallout so much we have a good feel for the game right? I mean, the blackhawk does 55 and fires about 2/sec, hence 100 DPS seems about right. But then, the GECK might know something we don't - the exact reload time of each weapon, they could have an equation that factors it in.... Speaking of reload time, god I would love to know reload times, in vats and real time. Is it the same across all weapons, is a vats reload really nearly instantaneous, does the minigun really take forever to reload or does it just feel that way? Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 02:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

The GECK Wiki folks say that the GECK-calculated DPS value does not include critical hit info. If that's the case, here's the crit DPS calc I came up with. I'll show the steps, the equation in text, then the equation using a Sniper rifle, Finesse, and a Luck of 5.

  • First, you have to figure out a true rate of fire...
    • Base Damage per Second / Base Damage per Shot = Shots per Second (hereafter, SPS)
    • 42 / 40 = 1.05
  • Second, you have to figure out your crit. chance with the weapon...
    • ((Luck / 100) + any bonus to your crit chance from Perks) * Weapon Crit. Chance Multiplier = Mofified Crit. Chance (hereafter, MCC)
    • ((5 / 100) + (5% from Finesse)) = 10% * 5 = 50%
  • Third, you have to figure out the additional damage per shot...
    • Weapon's Crit. Damage Add * MCC = Additional Damage per Shot (hereafter, ADPShot)
    • 40 * 50% = 20
  • Fourth, you have to figure out the modified damage per shot...
    • Base Damage per Shot + ADPShot = Modified Damage per Shot (hereafter, MDPShot)
    • 40 + 20 = 60
  • Finally, you have to figure out the modified damage per second...
    • MDPShot * SPS = Modified Damage per Second (hereafter, MDPS)
    • 60 * 1.05 = 63

So, if you have a Luck of 5, 100 Small Guns, and a fully repaired Sniper rifle, your modified DPS is 63 instead of 42. Now, if this equation is sound, it's still a different question about whether this info is useful enough to warrant inclusion in the table. Personally, I'd rather know the MDPS than the DPS, since the MDPS more accurately reflects the average amount of damage I'll be able to deal. However, that opinion may not be shared by most users. Let's see who chimes in and what they think. Servius 16:20, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

How does finesse fit into all this? It should, I'm fairly sure, go into the MCC number but how does it stack? Is it "((Luck / 100) +5%) * Weapon Crit. Chance Multiplier = Mofified Crit. Chance" in this case 50%? Or is it "(Luck / 100) * Weapon Crit. Chance Multiplier + 5% = Mofified Crit. Chance" in this case 30%? As is obvious, this really makes a difference in the viability of this perk for characters using a weapon with a high Weapon Crit. Chance Multiplier. I would test it myself, but am on a console. Daniel

Ah, good catch. Finesse works like 5 extra points of Luck, which is to say it adds 5% to your crit chance. I'm not yet sure when the extra 5% is added though. For example, is it added to your base, which then gets multiplied by the weapon, or is it added at the end, and thus is not multiplied by the weapon. I'll dig into the GECK and try to find the answer. For now I'll assume it's added to the base and modify the calc above to reflect that. Servius 17:15, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
  1. Golden! Now which display is more prudent: DPS next to MDPS showing an average base of 5 luck, or the max/min luck 1%-15% (making the real avg 7.5%)? Or....
  2. Maybe it makes the most sense to replace the old DPS column with (min) 1%MDPS, and add a (max) 15%MDPS column next to it. Then when a player is looking at the sniper rifle chart, they'll see minimum MDPS (44), then the maximum MDPS (73). Showing the full range would invariably help people realize how much luck factors into the game, which will help them make better character choices, especially when they realize they could be doing nearly double damage. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 17:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I found the Critical hit chance calculation over in the GECK wiki, but I have to get ready for a meeting. I'll work in the GECK calc to my DPS calc when I get home and update this then. Servius 17:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

And I guess while we're at it, it would be nice to know where the bonus from the wasteland survival guide fits in. If both it and finesse are inside the parentheses, a character with 10 luck, finesse and the best wasteland survival crit bonus would be doing (10+5+3)*5=90% crits. In the same vein, I am fairly sure that both the crit bonus from the Ninja perk and from attacking in V.A.T.S are added after the bonus -- because characters that should be getting to 100+% crits if they were stacking inside the parentheses are not. (see 17:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)Daniel

You know what would suck, if it turns out there's a 95% cap on critical% like with VATS shots Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 22:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


Okay all, after digging through the GECK wiki, talk pages, etc. I can say that...

  • The calculation for determining your crit chance has many more variables than I thought
  • However, most of them have a default value which means they're not really variables
  • So basically we had it right
  • And yes, bonuses to your crit chance from Perks are added to your base crit chance from Luck before it is multiplied by the weapon's crit chance multiplier.

So, I have the equation here on an Excel file. The variables are all available on the current page (except things like Luck, perks, etc. that we'll just have to assume). I can start generating a modified DPS for every weapon (that excludes the impact of perks). I'll go ahead and do this now with Small Guns and see what the comments are. Since it's time consuming, I'd rather do it in chuncks if people like it. Servius 22:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Excellent! Can we do it (1%MDPS, 18%MDPS) for ranged, and (1%MDPS, 33%MDPS) for melee? Regular DPS isn't worth posting, is it, nobody can go lower than 1%MDPS... Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 22:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Nope, can't do that, at least not in a static spreadsheet without adding a new column for every one of those percentages. If we took a poll or something and decided that 95% of players would get Finesse, then I could just assume that in the calculation and update the info accordingly. Small Guns MDPS data is in though. The assumptions it's based on are listed at the top of the page in the definition for MDPS. Servius 23:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I read it. But, it would only add one column, if we replaced the DPS column with the 1%MDPS. But still, as I suggested initially even assuming avg luck gives more of a consistent clue to a weapon's real damage than ignoring the crit%mult. I'm happy we're doing this. Well, you are, hehe, thanks Servius, you rock :) Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 23:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

It's also important to note how little difference there is between the DPS and MDPS for most weapons. You only see a big difference when there is a big Crit % Mult involved AND a big DMG / Shot (like with the sniper rifles). Lets see if Mirar or Ausir want to chime in. Servius 02:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
We're getting closer to the precise average dmg of these weapons, all factors included. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 13:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Autumn's Gun and V.A.T.S.

Col. Autumn's Laser Pistol fires two shots per round in V.A.T.S. Do with that information what you will.Fiddlesoup 03:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

On it, thanks! Servius 14:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Flamers in VATS

They actually fire 3-round bursts rather than 4 in VATS. I think the number of rounds in VATS burst mode is calculated with: Fire Rate x fVATSShotBurstTime(0.43) than rounded down to integer.

Ex1: Assault Rifles & Flamers: 8rd/sec * 0.43 = 3.44 -> 3

Ex2: Miniguns & Gatling Lasers: 20rd/sec * 0.43 = 8.6 -> 8

-- 19:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Rock-It Launcher

AshRandom recently posted damage data for the Rock-It Launcher that seemed very surprising. The most surprising bit being that it had a higher DPS than Vengeance. Before we post that info to the main page, I thought we should give space for a full explanation of the calculations that lead to that conclusion. Please post the data here regarding the Rock-It Launcher's damage. Servius 14:34, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

It's important to note that DPS alone doesn't exactly make it better than Vengeance, the Rock-It Launcher is easily the hardest ranged weapon to aim freehand. There are notes on the Talk:Rock-It Launcher page. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 15:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't find 166 DPS to be that surprising. 666 yes. Now that I've spent weeks using it as my main weapon, I think I have a pretty good feel for it. It does Blackhawk damage and it feels like it fires at least 50% faster, which would put it in the 3shots/sec range. GECK's saying 3.33/s and I'm perfectly willing to accept it. As far as the dmg based on weight thing goes, its been proven to be a myth, damage is consistent with all items, even zero weight paper-money. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 15:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I could accept a higher DPS than Vengeance if it was basically like a shotgun, but that role is sorta filled by the Flamer/Burnmaster. I'll have to try to dig into this more. I read the talk pages for the Rock-It Launcher and believe that a) the schematics don't affect damage directly (they do indirectly, since they affect initial condition) and b) that the weight doesn't affect damage. I can see the weight either way, but will give the benefit of the doubt to folks who say it doesn't matter. If we can rely on the GECK's Damage/Shot amount of 50, then we basically just need a true rate of fire. I'm pretty sure it's not an automatic weapon, which means the Fire Rate stat mean's nothing and that the animation actually drives the fire rate. What I don't know is if the info on the Animation page is the ONLY thing that affects the RoF. For example, there are the semi-automatic fire delay stats on that first tab. I'll dig around the GECK and the GECK wiki this afternoon and see if we can nail this thing down. Servius 15:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Great :) If you can verify ROF we should be in the clear. I'm already of the opinion that at this point we need to start asking where all the assumptions and rumors came from. Schematics total never had anything to do with damage, weight never had anything to do with damage, maxed skill never had anything to do with making light-weight items do full damage, all myths. Did any of them come from in-game material? Did it all come from the GECK's calculation errors? Either way I can still see Bethesda originally intending to take advantage of their physics engine and make damage based on weight only to cut it out after game-testing, (akin to the shiskebab and ripper not requiring ammo, but appearing to have slots for it). Personally I'm glad it got simplified assuming that is what happened, using lightweight items without penalty allows room for loot. Anyway, after extensive testing none of the myths have any validity on Xbox360, with identical results reported on the PC (tested by: Fiddlesoup). Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 15:49, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Weapon HP loss per shot

Servius, remember this question? It may be relatively easy to calculate.

GECK WIKI: The Damage to Weapon Multiplier overrides the multiplier that determines the amount of damage the weapon will take. (0.0 causes the weapon to take no damage. Greater than 1.0 causes the weapon to take more damage than it delivers).

Multiplying this factor by dmg/shot should allow us to determine exactly how much weapon health is deducted per shot. Question is, is it a factor that's already listed for each weapon, or is this just an option box for modders? (I'm starting to realize that I need to buy a PC version of fallout just so I can use the GECK myself...) Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 20:25, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
It sounds like there's a default calculation that bases wear on damage dealt, as well as a way to overide that default calc for one specific to a particular weapon. If we knew the default multiplier, we could work out the wear per shot. To me, I tend to find enough spare weapons to scrap for parts that the deterioration rate is not important to me (except for the sniper rifles which wear out too fast and are harder to find spare parts for). This is one of those things that may be interesting to some, but not interesting enough to me to warrant the time it would take me to do the work. If you wanted to take it on, I suggest replacing the existing HP column with one that shows how many shots you can get off before the weapon breaks. No one really cares about the HP, they only care about it as an indicator of how long the weapon will last. Servius 23:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, actually, it's an "option". There are two override check boxes. One of them changes the number AP required for one round of VATS, the other changes damage to a weapon. It's used 8 times, the three MQ weapons (CG BB gun, TL Rolling Pin, Slasher Knife) have it at 0, the Ripper and Flamer (and their unique variants) have it at 0.005, and the Rock-It Launcher has it at 0.01. All the other weapons use the default calculation, whatever that is.Fiddlesoup 21:56, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


Servius, you're going to need to edit your %5MDPS calculations for the firelance and alien blaster. They're already at 100% critical rate and as logic would indicate you can't critical more often than all-of-the-time. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 16:43, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Updated. Thanks again for all your hard work on the MDPS numbers Servius :)

Anchorage Weapons

Why does it say that the weapons will have limited use? It's been confirmed through numerous interviews with Bethesda that you will be able to use everything in Operation Anchorage in the main game. I don't know exactly how that will work with things like the Hei Gui Stealth Suit, but that's what the interviews say. -- 17:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

More compact, please

Seriously, this page is supposed to contain a brief list of all the weapons, but there's still way too much information about every weapon; especially lists of how to get schematics and similar things filling up way too many rows. This should be moved to the weapon's individual pages (and/or possible pages like "schematics"). User-Mirar pawprint14.pngMirar (Talk) 15:32, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

YES! Cutting the notes alone would shrink the page tremendously. I'll double check the notes to the individual pages so we don't lose any info. But should we take out the whole "note" column or just minimize notes so they don't run longer than a single line? --AshRandom 15:47, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
  • We should start stripping out certain columns too. That, and reducing some of the stuff in the NOTES column, would shorten the page considerably. If we can take out enough columns, we could split the page in half (vertically), which would make the page half as long. Whatever columns we remove from here, we could just add them to the individual weapon's page. I think we should...
    • Remove the HAND column for shotguns
    • Replace the DMG score with the DPS score from the GECK. This also makes the RoF column unnecessary.
    • Remove the WG, VAL, AMMO, MAGAZINE, and CODE columns
    • Remove the CODE column

Servius 15:59, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Removing the DMG column is a bad idea, too many weapons are single-shot. --AshRandom 16:49, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
For that matter, why remove columns, that won't reduce the length of the page anyway....

I've worked down to Big Guns so far. I'm shrinking all note lines down to a single line where I can. --AshRandom 16:47, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

First, the DMG stat is not very useful because it's not actually a reflection of the damage of a single shot. There is some other calc going on that determines the DMG stat (it may be DMG per x frames). DMG / shot could be useful, but then you'd all the automatic weapons would have a DMG of 8 or so. DPS is a better stat and removes the need for the RoF column. We could also just display 2 numbers in the same box (DMG / individual round and DPS.

Second, removing columns is useful because it allows the NOTES column to be wider, which allows the NOTES column to also be thinner, which makes the page shorter.

Third, you can shorten the NOTES text, but trying to make it 1 line high may not be possible because some of the width of the columns is determined by the width of your browser. It won't hurt to shorten them though. We should also remove all acquisition/location stuff. Crafted weapon schematic locations are already on the weapon's page. Every other weapon appears at random, based on level/loot tables, etc. There's no need to list every location of a Hunting Rifle. I tried to do some of this already.

I've already addressed the locations issue on most of the page, nearly finished. And you're wrong about Damage, there are many weapons which 1-shot kill and we should not remove the DMG column, regardless, DPS is a rate calculation, people don't need to be doing the math backwards to figure out what a single shot amounts to. --AshRandom 17:03, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
-) Ash, I agree that there is merit to keeping a DMG stat that reflects the full damage of a single shot, precisely for the reason you state. However, the DMG stat shown in the interface does not always match DMG of a single shot. For example, it's usually 4x the DMG of a single shot from an assault rifle and it's actually a bit lower than the DMG of a single Plasma Rifle shot. Since the interface DMG stat also does not match the GECK's DPS stat, the DMG stat in the interface is being calculated some other way. Regardless, I agree that knowing the DMG of a single shot is useful, but since we shouldn't force people to do math for the relative damage of assault weapons and such, a DPS value would be useful. Servius 17:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
I'd very much like to see a DPS column, especially for the full-auto weapons where it makes the most sense. We could swap-out the ROF column.
What do you guys think? I've chopped down ALL rows to singles where possible. The pyro and demolitions perks used up tons of room, so did the caveats at the bottom of each chart. Looks like the page length has gone down by about 50%. I also removed the entire ammunition section, as its utterly redundant with the ammo column itself. --AshRandom 17:33, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

56,769 bytes down to 43,343 bytes

I've hacked at it for most of the morning, and the page is much more compact now.

But, I think the only way we're going to get it down to 32k is to completely remove the least useful column (the item-code column, forcing people to go to the page to find it), and move the, custom-built, cheat-only and DLC-only charts to their own pages, and just put (See:RefferencePage) links under their headings. --AshRandom 18:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
41,789 bytes... its bare-bones now, so lets figure out what has to happen to the real data.

If we can agree that the primary purpose of the page is to show people the relative combat power of one weapon vs. another, then certain columns become much less useful. IMO, columns we could delete or move to the individual weapon's page include:

  • AMMO
  • MAG
  • CODE
  • WG
  • VAL

We could also remove the CRIT DMG column and simply add a statement saying that, in general, the CRIT DMG = the flat addition of per-round DMG that ignores damage resistance. For most ranged weapons, those changes would remoe 6 columns. We can also replace the RoF column with a DPS column. Servius 23:38, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagree, the ammo caliber is very important and should definitely stay. And I wouldn't be that concernet with the 32k requirement. It's an old carryover from Wikipedia, back from when browsers who had problems with long pages were common. I don't think it's much of a problem to anyone now. Ausir 23:43, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
I'll get to work converting the RoF column to a DPS column and will place it next to the DMG column. I will also update the DMG column to a DMG / shot column. Servius 02:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
I still don't like the idea of removing the in-game displayed damage, its going to confuse the hell out of people... then they're going to start randomly editing the per-shot values and we'll be constantly chasing after them... I don't want the per/shot column removed its an excellent data column, so lets swap out the still-useless-except-to-cheaters-and-hackers item code column and replace the old in-game damage column on the far left. --AshRandom 09:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

We could just add it back to the full-auto guns, they're the only ones that change anyway, we could be specific and call the column "Burst Damage"

I'll add a note at the top of the page explaining the difference between the DMG stat in the interface, DMG / SHOT, and DPS to hopefully reduce the chance of misunderstandings and unnecessary edits. We can also add the DMG stat from the interface to the NOTES section. It doesn't necessarily need it's own column, especially if it's mostly only for automatic weapons. Servius 14:30, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Down to 29,468 bytes (from 51,229) now, unnecessary markup adds up ;-) // Porter21 U | T 20:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
You rock Porter ;) --AshRandom 23:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Looking good

Looking very nice now. I poked at the table layout - I made a CSS class for tables, so I'm putting that in - and added nowrap to the headlines, since big fat headlines were taking up a lot of space and now the columns are few enough. Great job everyone! User-Mirar pawprint14.pngMirar (Talk) 11:58, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Right, I was also pondering if there should be a page with all the weapons in one table and all interesting values for people to sort and play at. What do you think? User-Mirar pawprint14.pngMirar (Talk) 11:58, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I really like the new template/format thing. It allows us to fit more info in a smaller space, which addresses the core issue we've been having. Nice work. Servius 14:31, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Can we have some color please, doesn't look very nice anymore --AshRandom 14:37, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I saw someone had started bolding the names of the unique weapons and putting a note of what they were a unique version of. I have continued that with the rest of the ranged weapons, but as you can see is has made the NOTES column several rows longer again. I think we should allow wrapping on some column headers (esp. when the name is much wider than the stats) and remove the CODE column to make space. I'll leave that to others though. For now, I'm going to start adding a DPS column to the melee weapons. Servius 15:06, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I bolded them, but I didn't start the notes. (I ran a macro bolding the weapons that had an "unique" stamp.) I think it's fine keeping them bold removing what they are an unique version of (you can always click to check). Or italics. Or a funny colour. User-Mirar pawprint14.pngMirar (Talk) 15:32, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Made them a funny colour now (span class=fallout-table-special, green - needs to be a css class due to the linky). User-Mirar pawprint14.pngMirar (Talk) 16:04, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's why I removed them. And do we really need to tell people its unique? I mean, can't they tell by the odd names? --AshRandom 15:16, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey! Nice colors :) --AshRandom 15:18, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, you must have had the old css running, and now your cache expired. I see :) Was a bit worried there... User-Mirar pawprint14.pngMirar (Talk) 15:32, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
So that's what happened! Came up clear when I first hit the page, all white. --AshRandom 15:42, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Very nice work folks! I never could have found the time to copy DPS from GECK. Bravo to whomever did that in particular, and all of you in general. It's also nice to see folks are centering things in general, hopefully using style="text-align:center" and changing where appropriate. Some tiny comments:
  1. Might put the Code column to farthest right (past Notes). Although it's important to have, it's the least used column. (Somebody will make a Blackhawk for themself once a game.) Keep more regularly-used info closer to the item name so as to reduce eye travel.
  2. (Aside: Why does everyone on the wiki state all the leading zeroes in Codes. Are there times when it's not an eight digit hexadecimal? If not, let's reduce column width.)
Beats me. To me it's about as odd as writing that something's value is 00000050 caps. ;) Ñothing seems to be over 5 digits anyway. (ff00xxxx is temporary ref id's, it seems.) User-Mirar pawprint14.pngMirar (Talk) 12:36, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
  1. The links to other equally important pages at the bottom of the page, like Armor, have disappeared. A temporary thing, surely.
  2. I don't suppose there's any way to have things sort across the various weapon types? I once asked about being able to upload e.g. Excel or Access files and got no real reply. This seems mired in the opportunity/problem that the site does not make users register (therefore, such files are not allowed, because anything with macros could be a bad thing).
  3. Suggest renaming DLC to Downloadable Content, so it shows up as such directly on the page menu. It toots BGs horn a little more to have it totally clear instead of users saying "wth is DLC ... ah ok now I see, now that I scrolled down". As opposed to "BG has downloadable weapons? Rock! What are they!"
Excellent rewrite, folks. Consider the above points and use or abuse them.
Great game, great wiki, great writers -RedKnight7 08:33, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
  • To whoever was super happy about the DPS thing, I'm the troll who dug it out of the GECK and put it here. On another point, I think Mirar and others have spoken about the desire to be able to have a single, undivided list of weapons that you could sort any way you like. IMO, we could do that, but we should add a column that states the kind of weapon (Small Gun Pistol, SMG, Energy Weapon Rifle, etc.) so that, if folks wanted, they could still sort the list by type. Having those tags in there is also important because they explain which SPECIAL stats, skills, and perks affect which weapons (Commando vs. Gunslinger, etc.). Somewhat echoing previous comments, I think we could sacrifice the CODE column, replacing it with the weapon type. That way the column spam would stay the same. Plus, I think CODE is the least used information, it's something you never sort by, it has no effect on combat, and it's something that is listed on each individual weapon's page. I'll hold off for a few days so see if there's any uproar to this suggestion. If I see none, I'll start the replacement. Once the change is made, we can wait a few more day and see if anyone goes nuts then. If not, then I can start stripping out the dividers and merging all the separate lists. Servius 14:05, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
    • I'm going to make this change (replace CODE column with weapon type column and merging all weapon groups into a single list in the next few days unless I hear some objections. Actually, I have a small objection. :-) If we merge them all, then every time someone wants to change any little thing, they have to load the entire data set, which takes time. Also, if we get rid of the small groups, we'll have to rely on good summary notes for changes as it will no longer give us the sub-group name to make finding the changes easier. Perhaps I'll start by merging weapons by skill type (so, merging all Small Guns weapons togteher) and see how that works. Servius 20:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
      • Okay, I'm going to start merging the Small Guns together now. I'll do it in one single go so that it can all be undone if anyone really hates it. Servius 19:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Satcom launcher

In my opinion, the "Satcom Launcher" (which is listed as a cheat-only weapon) is not really a weapon but a script item used to produce the "satellite strike" at SatCom Array NW-05a. // Porter21 U | T | C 03:04, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I agree. If the player cannot equip it and fire it, it shouldn't be on the weapons page. Currently, the page says the ammo is a Nuclear Missile which you cannot (to my knowledge) obtain in game. If you can't obtain ammo then you can't fire it, so it shouldn't be on the list. Servius 14:19, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I've made a new section (even if the guys trying to shorten the article are probably going to kill me for it ;-) ). "Weapons" like Liberty Prime's laser or the Satcom Launcher which primarily exist for technical reasons (engine needs weapon to fire projectile) are simply not the same as cut content like Wanda or Law Dog. // Porter21 U | T 23:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

No Way

How exactly does the Rock It Launcher have 666 max DPS? I have maxed bigguns skill and V3 schematic and I've never come close to feeling like I'm doing 666 DPS (six times better DPS than the Blackhawk...?)

  • The 666 DPS stat is what the GECK says. As explained at the top of the main page, DPS is a GECK-calculated stat based on all sorts of variables. The Rock-It Launcher is odd in that it's damage isn't determined by the weapon but by the ammo. Thus, it is likely that the 666 DPS is just a placeholder max DPS cap and not something actually achievable. Unfortunately, the only way to get an accurate DPS would be to know the GECK's equation, as well as accurate Rate-of-Fire info (the Fire Rate stat is not actually shots/second) and the damage/shot info for every kind of junk you can load or ammo. An alternative would be to remove all damage info from the Rock-It Launcher's entry and just add a note saying damage is determined by the ammo. Please write back and let me know if this is preferable. Servius 14:18, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
  • If we accept that the max ammo damage is 50 per shot, and that the rate of fire is quite clearly not 13 shots per second then we can only conclude that 666 DPS is inaccurate. And by inaccurate I mean total garbage, and likely a programmer's typo. The weapon doesn't shoot anywhere near that fast, I could see 66-DPS or even 100, as it gets close to 2 shots per second, but 666? That's just ridiculous. --AshRandom 14:26, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Right, I agree the 666 is not possible, and I said that it is likely a cap, just like the 50 / shot is probably just a cap and may also not be achievable. As said else where, the DPS is a GECK-calculated number, not something hard-coded. You can change several other variables that will in turn fiddle with the DPS. Regardless, none of the damage stats related to the Rock-It Launcher mean anything, since the amount of damage is actually determined by the ammo and not the weapon. I think I'll just remove both figures and insert a note saying that the damage varies based on the junk you use. Servius 18:05, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

V:W Column Usefulness

  • Actually I don't think W:V columns belong here. There should be a specific page for all items in the game as to what is worth looting. The problem with using weapons, is their varying condition, and also I can't think of any vendor in the game, (my games at least), who could afford to buy a mini gun in 100% condition, unless you have very low barter skills. Maybe if you invested heavily in the trade caravans that might happen, but so far, on average I get about 500 caps per regular trader. Once all you consider is the weapons cap value, it becomes the same as a carton of cigarettes. Since you are not considering it's attributes as a weapon, but as a saleable item, therefore that information probably shouldn't be on this page.
    • I think it's safe to say that V:W is more useful than just the VALUE, but I see your point and am myself fuzzy on the need for any economic information on this page. I won't object if someone suggests nixing all value-related info from this page, but I also won't do it myself as I'm pretty sure there would be objections from other players who value having that information here. Servius 19:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Well, the cap value isn't much use either, since we aren't primarily interested in that, just how much damage the weapon can do. I'm surprised people can't work out that carrying an assault rifle worth 100 caps is less cost effective than carrying around 2 cartons of cigarettes. That's why I suggested a separate page for the cap value of all items, (of course chems, pre-war money and ammo would win since they are weightless). Adding too many columns just clutters it up. Selling weapons isn't an efficient way to make money in this game. It can come into it's own later on when you have some repair skills, but chances are by that time you have enough caps anyway, (and what is there to spend it on anyway?). If you have gone the gun route, your probably not that interested in bartering. - Don't mind me, I am just a bit bored. I don't need a chart to tell me which gun works best for me in the game. I've never found money, weapons, ammo or rads much of a problem beyond the first few xp levels, (even on the hardest level), and they go by pretty quickly.
I agree. The condition of weapons vary too greatly for the V:W column to be of any use. If several weapons have are in very similar condition then which are more worthwhile hanging onto can be determined from the list, however, actual value and weight of the items are given in the game anyway, and unless you're a complete dunce, some simple, approximate arithmetic will suffice as there aren't any weapons I can think of that don't have a simple weight, such as 8 or 30, and 18 can be rounded off to 20. And lets not forget that zero-value broken weapons, or other weapons of very low condition can be very valuable when used to repair.

I'm not suggesting that we bring back the "Value" column but I don't think V:W is of enough use to bother with.

dude your right.
It's especially unhelpful because the column is currently unexplained anywhere on the page! CHA1N5 17:15 CST, 29 January 2009
The biggest reason V:W is unhelpful is because weapons (regardless of condition) are already the best value to weight ratio of any item type, and people know it after just a few hours of gameplay. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 00:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm speaking on behalf of users of the page: without a definition for the column it conveys zero information, rather than the marginally useful information you describe. CHA1N5 15:19 CST, 1 February 2009
yeah I came to this discussion page looking for info about the meaning of the V:W column. Indeed it sucks that it isn't explained anywhere on the page. I don't mind having that extra piece of information (the value of the weapon? Oh right, that's the Value-to-Weight ratio lol). I suggest to scrap the V:W column and replace it by a V column. As the WG column is besides it, no need for a redundant V:W column once the V column is in place. Quintal 17:34, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Rock-It Launcher

AshRandom recently posted damage data for the Rock-It Launcher that seemed very surprising. The most surprising bit being that it had a higher DPS than Vengeance. Before we post that info to the main page, I thought we should give space for a full explanation of the calculations that lead to that conclusion. Please post the data here regarding the Rock-It Launcher's damage. Servius 14:34, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

It's important to note that DPS alone doesn't exactly make it better than Vengeance, the Rock-It Launcher is easily the hardest ranged weapon to aim freehand. There are notes on the Talk:Rock-It Launcher page. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 15:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't find 166 DPS to be that surprising. 666 yes. Now that I've spent weeks using it as my main weapon, I think I have a pretty good feel for it. It does Blackhawk damage and it feels like it fires at least 50% faster, which would put it in the 3shots/sec range. GECK's saying 3.33/s and I'm perfectly willing to accept it. As far as the dmg based on weight thing goes, its been proven to be a myth, damage is consistent with all items, even zero weight paper-money. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 15:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I could accept a higher DPS than Vengeance if it was basically like a shotgun, but that role is sorta filled by the Flamer/Burnmaster. I'll have to try to dig into this more. I read the talk pages for the Rock-It Launcher and believe that a) the schematics don't affect damage directly (they do indirectly, since they affect initial condition) and b) that the weight doesn't affect damage. I can see the weight either way, but will give the benefit of the doubt to folks who say it doesn't matter. If we can rely on the GECK's Damage/Shot amount of 50, then we basically just need a true rate of fire. I'm pretty sure it's not an automatic weapon, which means the Fire Rate stat mean's nothing and that the animation actually drives the fire rate. What I don't know is if the info on the Animation page is the ONLY thing that affects the RoF. For example, there are the semi-automatic fire delay stats on that first tab. I'll dig around the GECK and the GECK wiki this afternoon and see if we can nail this thing down. Servius 15:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Great :) If you can verify ROF we should be in the clear. I'm already of the opinion that at this point we need to start asking where all the assumptions and rumors came from. Schematics total never had anything to do with damage, weight never had anything to do with damage, maxed skill never had anything to do with making light-weight items do full damage, all myths. Did any of them come from in-game material? Did it all come from the GECK's calculation errors? Either way I can still see Bethesda originally intending to take advantage of their physics engine and make damage based on weight only to cut it out after game-testing, (akin to the shiskebab and ripper not requiring ammo, but appearing to have slots for it). Personally I'm glad it got simplified assuming that is what happened, using lightweight items without penalty allows room for loot. Anyway, after extensive testing none of the myths have any validity on Xbox360, with identical results reported on the PC (tested by: Fiddlesoup). Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 15:49, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


Formula page says vats default is +15% after the fact (outside of the parenthesis). Now is that referring to default weapon bonus or is that a default character bonus? Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 03:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

It's a flat 15% bonus added near the end of the equation. I didn't include that (and noted as much in the definition) because some people don't use VATS. The equation I used is a 'worst case scenario' that doesn't include perks, VATS, or a luck over 5. If people want to figure out their exact crit chance based on their own stats, they can check out the GECK wiki, find the equation, and do the math themselves. :-) There are just too many different factors to make a column for each possibility. Servius 13:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Don't worry so much Servius, I'm not thinking of changing this page, I just wanted verification. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 15:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

GECK DPS Calculation Errors

Okay, well, your comments prove to me that my experience isn't anomalous, I'm clearly not the only one getting rapid fire out of the plasma rifle. Tell me, in about how many seconds can you unload all 12 shots? Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 17:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I find that fire rate for energy weapons can vary quite a bit; they have a bit of a "sticky" trigger. Most of the time, the plasma rifle will dole it out quickly, while other times, it can pause quite a bit between shots. The GECK says it can do four shots per second. Also, the "semi-automatic fire delay max" for it is 2. In comparison, it's 1 on the 10mm pistol. I think the delay min and delay max are the factors in the "sticky trigger" phenomenon. --MadCat221 00:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
What's the fastest you've ever unloaded 12 rnds? I manage it in 3sec just about every time. My suspicion is that the GECK's DPS for everything other than fully automatic weapons, is, quite frankly, utterly worthless. If it can't correctly factor in the animation delay, then it isn't calculating honest numbers. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 00:28, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Just did a test: I could indeed belt off four rounds per second. After eight shots, the trigger got "sticky" because of the trigger delay max dealie, and then the remaining four shots went off in a second's time. I've noticed this "sticky trigger" thing on other energy weapons, most notably the laser pistol.
Excellent, some verification. Which system are you on again? Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 00:49, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
PC, maxed settings. --MadCat221 01:14, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, that clinches it for me. Same effects on PC and Xbox360. We can't trust GECK DPS for anything aside from fully automatic weapons. As I've suspected since the beginning, the GECK just plain fails to calculate DPS correctly for a number of semi-automatic weapons. We either need to pull the base ROF out and use that to create DPS, or just abandon the column entirely. I'm going to move this discussion to the weapons page and annoy Servius with it. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 01:21, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I think that, for semi-auto weapons, we put "shots per second", and then the max semi-auto fire delay. 1.0 would be normal, anything higher would be "sticky" or something along that line. There is a shots/sec calculator in the weapon object window as well, in the second tab section. --MadCat221 02:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm confused as to how we can get an exact DPS out of it, if the initial so many shots are at full ROF and then there's a weird delay, and back into the full ROF again how the hell do we average that out? Take the plasma rifle, it sure as hell isn't getting 0.94 ROF as we're listing it now, and its not really getting 4.0 ROF either because of the weird delay factor.... Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 03:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And annoy me you have. Grrr... I'm starting to feel as grumpy has Harold. Guys, the DPS appears to be a very complicated equation. For example, it takes things like clip size magazine capacity and reload animation time into account. My bet is you two weren't considering that. If you can find the GECK's DPS calculation somewhere and can prove that it's got some kind of fatal flaw, then maybe we can take the DPS and MDPS columns out. But for now, it's the best thing we have that is calculated in a consistent way for every weapon in the game. Servius 02:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The DPS has to be considered garbage at this point no matter what other crap they're taking into account, its just plain bullshit, the plasma rifle reloads super-fast, and its ROF is super-fast... how the hell is it doing so little DPS? There's no way in hell any amount of additional factors could reliably add up to less than 1 shot a second, the damn Blackhawk takes forever to reload, only has 6 shots and is listed as doing more than twice as much DPS, which CAN'T be the case... it just can't, the plasma does nearly the same damage and has a larger clipsize magazine capacity... Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 03:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
A3-21's Plasma Rifle does the same DPS as the XAR and Wanda, which makes sense. It does more DPS than the sniper rifle and just under the Minigun. The thing that seems off are the scoped .44s. As I said, if you can prove that the DPS calc is broken somehow, then we can reassess whether we want to keep using it. You haven't done that yet. Servius 04:04, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
If we're going to consider keeping the DPS column, we need to scrap what the GECK says on DPS, and just use the ROF to get DPS. It might not be perfect but at least it'll be consistently wrong, which oddly enough would make it a more reliable number than the GECK's calculated DPS which has proven to be inconsistently wrong..... Example: 4x45=180DPS for plasma (currently 42), 4x50=200 for A3-21 (currently 47).... Its off by so damn much (425%) it's laughable, you'd need a hematoma to miss how dishonest the GECK's numbers are. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 04:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Ash, you seem very passionate about this. Instead of posting tirades here about how messed up you think the GECK's data is, you should instead prove your hypothesis. And by prove, I mean you should get the actual GECK DPS equation and make a logical argument about where/how the equation is broken. Alternatively, you could start a forum thread and get dev to say the GECK's DPS calc is flawed. Another option would be (since you have the Xbox version) to get someone else to make a mod that would stand up static targets with known HP and DR and see how long it takes to kill them. Since we don't have multiplayer, that person would have to code NPCs to stay still while being attacked. They'd also want to mix in other NPCs with different HP and DR to verify their initial findings. Until you can prove that there's something wrong with the GECK's DPS calc, you should leave the main page alone. Servius 04:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I've gotten 2nd party verification (thank you MadCat221) on a 2nd system (PC) to prove my intuition and show that my experiences aren't anomalous or specific to the Xbox360. The plasma rifle is a 12 rnd weapon, and the full clip magazine fires in 3-4 seconds, not 12.8 seconds as the GECK's DPS might lead us to believe. That's all the proof needed to make a judgment call on the veracity of GECK "Damage Per Second" calculations. It's discordant. Even if you take other factors into account, reload, clipsize magazine capacity, etc, it just becomes more obvious that it doesn't correlate, even to other weapons calculated through the GECK.
So where does that leave us? We've discovered that there's a major miscalculation in how the GECK determines semi-automatic DPS, seemingly as a result of the unexplained "semi-automatic fire delay max" factor. It's been verified that both plasma weapons are off by over 425% compared to the in-game experience. And we know the Rock-It Launcher was off by 400%. Knowing what we do now, there's no reason to trust any of it. You've proven your willingness to blindly trust the data, and the source of your data has proven itself to be erroneous. So, if anyone needs to show proof, it's you Serivus, because you're not wiggling around inside of a probabilistic 5% error margin here, you're off by a factor of four.

DPS, MDPS Removal

It is not The Vault's function to grossly misinform the entire world. The DPS/MDPS data needs to be removed. "In-game DAM" and ROF will have to suffice. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 14:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I oppose AshRandom's opinion and recommendation, at least given the lack of proof he has provided to date. I have asked him several times to prove the GECK's DPS calc is wrong by actually finding the calc, posting it for all to see, and showing where the calculation is wrong. I also suggested he could get a dev to state that the GECK's DPS calc is inaccurate. A third option would be to perform and record in-game tests and post them to YouTube or something. He has consistently refused to put forth any real proof that the calc is wrong and instead merely continues to post annecdotal "evidence" from his and one other player's experience, and based solely on that, believes that the DPS and MDPS info is wrong and should be removed. His alternative is to return to the DAM stat (which we have already agreed is an inaccurate way of comparing weapon damage). Given how much time I and others have put into getting the weapons page to its current state, I obviously have a personal stake in not seeing all that work undone based on a shoddy argument. However, given that my opinion is biased, I defer to User:Ausir or User:Mirar to make a decision on how high the bars should be to prove that the current data is wrong and what changes, if any, should be made to the data on this page. I suggest that, until they weight in, no changes should be made to the main page. Servius 15:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The the Semi-Automatic Fire Delay Min/Max isn't even defined on the GECK website aside from a note explaining that it doesn't take effect until after you close the window.[2]

  # Semi-Automatic Fire Delay Max:
   * This allows semi-auto weapons to have a "sticky trigger" effect. 
  This variable affects the GECK-calculated DPS stat. 
  However, the affect only appears after you click OK and close the Weapon window.

You clearly don't understand it and haven't applied it correctly or the DPS wouldn't be so ridiculously far off. And as far as unarmed weapons go, jesus, the GECK website just says: [3]

  Unarmed Damage = Formula unknown at this time.

here's another note from the GECK website: [4]

  # Fire rate: Number of shots per second. This is only valid for automatic weapons. 
  Single shot weapons are restricted by their attack animation. 
  Their "rate of fire" can be altered by changing the Attack Multiplier in the Animation group.
  * As mentioned above, this variable only affects the GECK's DPS calculation if the "Automatic" box is checked.

ROF is only valid for automatic weapons? And we know for a fact we aren't applying the animation delay correctly because it doesn't appear until after you click OK? WTF? This editor was thrown together after the fact and it shows, I don't see how its estimated DPS can be trusted. Especially when the way you're using it has it telling us the strongest weapons in the game (plasma rifles) are weak, and that the rock-it launcher does 666 DPS, the poor deathclaw gauntlet only does 10 DPS yet you can kill a behemoth with it? Get real. This data is garbage. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 17:35, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Plasma Rifle

Well, in the GECK, the things that effect a gun's RoF are

1.Fire Rate (1.0000 for PR)
2.Whether or not it’s automatic (it isn’t)
3.Min/Max. Semi-Auto Fire Delay (Min: 0.100, Max:2.0000)
4.The models and animations chosen for the gun.

That’s what I know. The number “Attack Shots/Sec” on the Plasma Rifle is listed as 4. There are modifiers applied directly to the Shots/Sec afterward, but I don't know what they do to modify it. In this case, an Attack multiplier of 2 takes the Shots/Sec from 2, to the listed value of 4. The number .94 probably came from the fact that 42 (GECK's DPS value) is 93~94% of 45 (the listed damage). Anyway, I've got to go now, but I'll find out what those multipliers mean when I get back. Fiddlesoup 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's how I got ROF. Let me know what you figure out, at this point I'm somewhat convinced it's DPS is wrong, as I can unload the entire 12 rnd clip magazine in about 4 seconds (not 12.8 sec)... Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk)
Sorry I took so long. This was on my to do list, but got buried underneath learning the workings of the GECK.
Anyway, the Attack Multiplier modifies the shots/sec by altering how long the attack animation is (the anim of your character bracing against recoil).
It's not a straight relationship: The PR's default AM setting of 2 takes the S/s setting from 2 to 4, but in order to make it go up again, you need to change the multiplier to 5, which changes S/s to 5. It's difficult to get an exact reading, without making it automatic, which causes other problems (see below).
However, I think it'd be safe to say that 4 S/s is an "ideal" number, in that, with perfect reflexes you could shoot 4 per second.
As for the DPS, I'm not sure why it gives that reading. It's affected by several different variables, but I don't know the equation. It's possible that it's an error. The DPS on the RIL also exhibits unusual readings.
I forgot to mention, the S/s is the same on A3-21's, just the damage and other stats were changed.
On a side note, the problem I mentioned with automatics... After increasing the RoF to 5, I tried making it auto. Well, when I fired, the animation played... somewhat spastically, but no plasma came out (unless I fired semi-auto). Also, the GECK records a RoF for Col. Autumn's Laser Pistol of 12 shots/sec. Using a stopwatch, I timed it in-game at 5 shots/sec (it also appears to "stutter" a bit, rather than smoothly shooting all rounds). I'm adding this here, because I'm not sure if this is an issue with the game engine, or my computer.Fiddlesoup 08:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
It is most definitely an issue with the GECK editor, I've been digging into it as well and even according to the GECK website they know they're not showing DPS correctly, in fact there's even a note about how it won't factor in animation correctly until after closing the window....??!!!! At this point I've reached the highest level of frustration I can possibly get to without actually screaming and yelling about it. I'm going to move this to the weapons discussion page, you're now my 2nd source of proof that we need to abandon the semi-automatic weapons data gathered from this editor, it simply isn't giving us honest numbers. Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 14:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


Okay folks we've figured most of it out already. The "Semi-Automatic Fire Delay Max" works as follows: Using the plasma rifle as an example you can think of it this way: It has an attack speed of 4/second with a max fire delay of 2, so in the first 2 seconds you can get off 8 shots, then there's a 1 sec pause, then in the 4th second you can fire off the remaining 4 shots left in the weapon. So it takes 4 seconds to fire off a full clip magazine of 12. In reality this pause is often unseen, blending itself in with the weapon, however there are times when it amounts to a blatant pause or apparent trigger stickiness. Regardless, because it takes 3 seconds of real shooting with a 1 second pause averaged in we end up with an effective ROF of 3/sec, giving it a damage per second total of 135 (DPS). Expect to see new DPS numbers as well as columns for reload times, and ROF soon. I apologize to the world on behalf of The Vault, I'm sorry that we're currently so very wrong about DPS numbers, it wasn't anyone's fault for trusting in the GECK editor, it seemed legit. For now questionable DPS numbers need to be taken down, but, it's just too time consuming, there are way too many pages and I'm not going to go through them all until me and Fiddlesoup have finished collating the data (by hand as apparently the GECK can't do it correctly). Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 22:16, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

New Numbers

The data is going live this week, as the unarmed and explosives lists were completed first they're the first to be seen. These fall under the DPS↓Reloads and ROF↓Reloads categories, per-clip magazine DPS/ROF wasn't listed because they both amount to 1-shot weapons - instead their times are averaged. We do have DPS and ROF numbers on a per-clip magazine basis for everything outside of 1-shot and hth weapons, so expect to see that too. (ROF, DPS, MDPS chart, so far) lists both hand calculations and stopwatch time-trials - still a work in progress (it's set to global view, but, you may need to contact me for gmail shared-sheet permissions, sorry). Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 13:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

To answer PC players questions ahead of time ROF (and therefore DPS) is based on the Xbox360 and PS3 fps target of 30 (frames per second). So obviously these numbers are most helpful to console players. PC users who may see FPS anywhere from single digits to over 60 FPS will see a proportional ratio to them. The reason for the disparity is many fold. First of all video cards without good vsync will see an average FPS rate which drops off sharply at times giving high-action encounters a slow-down effect. PC users graphical experience changes depending on their total ram and the combined power of their video cards and CPUs. These variables all changes yet again depending on resolution, video settings, options, etc. So you can see the problems that arise and why we choose to base ROF on console averages. Hope that helps ;) Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 04:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for my ignorance, but IF I had a powerful PC that can run FO3 smoothly (it should be under 60 fps constantly I suppose?), will the ROFs of PC be the same on consoles with 30 fps or double? One more question, how many values from GECK weapons are misleading? We already know about DPS, does anything related to "Fire Rate" value have errors? --NovaRain 05:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay I'll try to answer. At 60FPS the damage you could do in a single second would be greater. It's not a direct ratio, in other words I don't think you'd see double the ROF, but it is somewhat faster especially for weapons with big animations. Other question, I was worried about that myself but no, GECK's base-item-data seems fine, it's just the big equation that's inconsistent. You can find your PC's fps using Fraps, or possibly through the game itself which would be preferable, I have no idea (I don't have it for the PC). Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 07:28, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I suppose if we had time trials confirmed at 60FPS then we could determine the ratio -- I'd like to know what the exact difference is myself, I don't even know if it's a consistent difference, it might very well be more drastic for some weapons. Without the numbers we can only make guesses. We noticed there was a difference when we saw (about a two tenths of a second) difference between a pc clocked at 45 FPS (Fiddlesoup's PC) and what both of us were getting out of our consoles. If anyone feels like putting the time in to collect further data I wouldn't complain ;) Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 07:53, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Honestly though you shouldn't worry too much about it, the point of this project was to obtain calculations that at very least APPROACHED REALITY so we could finally see which ones do the most damage for *real*. My point being that even if your PC runs faster or slower the comparison between weapons should still hold firm. You're not going to be walking around with a plasma rifle that suddenly does less damage than the blackhawk because of your FPS (yeah that's right I said it, the blackhawk does less damage; in real DPS the blackhawk is 109/clip magazine, 53w/reloads -- basic plasma rifle is 136/clip magazine, 78w/reloads). Ash Nuke.jpg AshRandom (Talk) 08:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Bare Hands

Nowhere on the wiki do I see any information regarding attacks using no weapons at all, using just bare hands. How much AP does it use? What is the critical bonus? Multiplier? Base damage? Nowhere to be found. This is a surprising oversight. (A Wanderer) 03:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

That's mostly because there's no readily apparent way of accessing this information. There IS a weapon in the GECK called "bare fists" or something, but it's unused and doesn't appear to be connected to in-game unarmed damage. But, since you've mentioned it, I'll put it on my to-do list (which is currently taken up by school, then adding Ash's DPS data, etc.)Fiddlesoup 17:03, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Look under Unarmed skill

There's nothing there about it. That said, I finally got around to getting that info. My most consistent in-game testing data was:

  • no SPECIAL stat has any impact on unarmed damage (unlike melee damage; just confirming what I already knew)
  • With Unarmed at 0 (possible using the console command "player.forceav unarmed [integer]"), pure unarmed damage against an unarmored opponent (raider stripped of his armor) was 1.5 hp/strike
  • With Unarmed at 100, pure unarmed damage against the same target (using either the command "resethealth" on the raider, or loading a pretest save) dealt 6.5 hp/strike.
  • Neither power strikes (charged attacks, where you hold down the button) nor critical strikes (if that's possible) were counted.
  • Each point in the Unarmed skill bestowed an additional 0.05 hp/strike.

This puts the equation at BaseUnarmedDamage = 1.5 + (0.05xUnarmedSkill). Not sure if I've missed anything, but there it is.Fiddlesoup 04:02, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Christ, this something so simple why in god's name won't someone from bethesda just chip in?

Rate of Fire and V:W

The page describes a column for Rate Of Fire, yet this column is missing for almost all of the weapons. And what the hell is v:w???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Moved from Special:ProblemReports/18824. // Porter21 U | T 12:45, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The Rate of Fire column is missing because the user who was managing the overhaul of this page left the wiki over a dispute while the overhaul was taking place. This is mentioned in passing in the article (specifically, the part about Vault administration replacing data with calculations based on in-game tests). To the second question, I'm not 100% certain, since I didn't create that value, but it is my understanding that V:W is a Value:Weight ratio showing you how many caps you get for an item in relation to the space it takes in your inventory. Hope that's helpful, if this person ever returns, or for anyone else with similar questions.Fiddlesoup 04:09, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The Kneecapper can do criticals

Just wanted to point out that The Kneecapper actually can score critical hits, both normal and sneak attack ones. Someone with G.E.C.K. (or something) might want to look up how much damage critical hits from this weapon do.--Mehbah 22:25, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Autoaxe DPS?

How is this calculated? I ask because it's the same as damage per hit for the autoaxe and ripper. But they definitely hit more than once per second. Am I missing something here?

Xbox 360

So, all of these weapon statistics come from a PC game editor.. If you have the Xbox 360 version, there is absolutely no way to find out this information.. Its not in the manual.. My point is, why didnt Bethesda just include all of this useful information in the game manual? I never buy strategy guides, but I assume they saved this info for the strategy guide so they could wring some extra dollars out of consumers? Hmm. At what point did the industry standard become to offer a game manual with insufficient information to play the game in order to make money off of strategy guides? And, more importantly, which game design company will be the one to question the propriety of this standard, reverse this trend, and reclaim their integrity? 12:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Wild Bills Sidearm

The object id listed in the chgart is incorrect, it should be xx00a7cb. Daisho13 08:44, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Just edited the MDPS values for ranged weapons

Using the equation of ( ( 5 Luck * Modified Crit Chance * Crit Damage ) + Weapon Damage ) * Rate of Fire from the top of the page, I have edited the MDPS values for the ranged weapons. Next I plan on finishing up with the melee weapons, and then going back and correcting the DPS values as well (more or less copying them from the individual pages, where they are accurate). The weapons page would do well with the rate of fire listed for all weapons too as well. Rydiak 04:26, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Pa's Fishing Aid

Please add here a newly discovered in Point Lookout shotgun by me: Pa's Fishing Aid. --BillyFckwards 16:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Missing Stats?

Why is there no ROF or any such thing for the ranged weapons? I would really like to see how DPS and MDPS are calculated and even have the chance to work up my own formula, but this base data is missing from the table.

I would also like to know how many shots are fired in a burst in VATS, or is it the same for every weapon? I have not been able to find anything that says how many shots are fired in a burst in any article. (There also seems to be no mention in the wiki of the double damage done from headshots, though I don't know where that info would go. I was thinking perhaps there would be an article about targeting body parts and describing the various effects of each, ect. But no such article seems to exist.)

-mannon 17:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

just divide damage/sec by damage/shot, then multiply that by 60, and you get rounds/min. example ( Chinese Assault Rifle) 88/11=8, 8*60= 480rpm (dmg/s)/ (dmg/sht)=# ,#*60=rpm. so the Chinese Assault Rifle has a rof of 480 rds/min--Thedeerhunter 08:52, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

The biggest issue here is that DPS value, as shown in GECK, has no real meaning in the game, exempt for automatic weapons. For example, Chinese Assault Rifle and Xuanlong Assault Rifle show 44 and 48 compared to GECK, which is indeed damage done in half second (those two to 11 and 12 damage, while having same fate of fire of 8.0 attacks per second). But, let's look at basic Laser Pistol: GECK says its DPS is 11 (less then 12 for single shot), but in game it can fire very very quickly (as fast as you can click with mouse quickly), surely more then two hits per second.

On the other hand, single shot stat, in combination with Attack Shots/Sec value (Art and Sound page in GECK), describe much closer what is real rate of fire for those weapons. Although, it should be noted that values above 3shots/sec for non-automatic weapons can be difficult to confirm in the game, due to human limitations of fast mouse clicking.

P22 06:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

MDPS Formula

= the player character's base critical chance as a decimal value between 0 and 1.
= the critical multiplier for a given weapon.
= the additional critical hit damage for the weapon.
= the number of hits per second, also the rate of fire of the weapon if accuracy is 100%.
= the base DPS or non-critical hit DPS.

This is a simple formula that allows quick calculation of a weapon's MDPS for statistical purposes assuming 100% accuracy.

You can find the derivation, explanations, and examples on my blog page, which you can access here. This is just to help reduce clutter in this discussion page. The basic formula is the simplest, and it has been left here instead of the final formula.--Ehplee 16:21, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Critical Hit Multiplier

The description is not perfectly clear whether the value in the table is the GECK value for automatic weapons or is the result of the GECK value being divided by the fire rate. I think it is implied that the value in the chart is indeed the modified value, but it is a bit confusing.

-mannon 17:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually I find the Damage values similarly confusing. The description seems to imply that the value is the result of all the shotgun pellets hitting, but just one beam of multibeam weapons. This should really be the total damage for all pellts, beams, whatever... unless you wish to also provide the number of pellets/beams as a column in the table. I dunno, I think it's just the description that is confusing me, that and I don't have access to this data from another source to verify so it needs to be extra clear exactly what the values mean.
-mannon 17:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

WARINIG: Divided critical multiplier values for automatic weapons are not true when using VATS!!! They only work in free fire mode.

Testing: Precision Gatling Gun (x4 in GECK), 100 Energy weapons, fully repaired, Finesse perk and Luck of 10 (base crit chance of 15%). Outside VATS, on average it took at least 15-25 bullets to get critical hit if firing only single shots outside VATS. Thus, formula works. But, if using VATS, almost every shot (8 rounds volley) was critical shot, which would make sense if no dividing is done (4*15+15=75%). P22 09:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems I may be wrong. I was unable to reproduce my earlier tests. I'll investigate some more, and if I'm not able to confirm much higher critical chance in VATS for automatic weapons, I'll remove it from the article. P22 08:22, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
OK, I removed the info from the article, and restored tables to only shown critical multiplier divided by ROF for automatic weapons. P22 21:06, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Who switched all the crit mods on each automatic weapons private pages from its less then 1 stat listed on the table to 1? --LordVukodlak 00:48, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea, but I'm really considering adding both values in the table. Since testing showed, that non-divided multiplier is used for criticals in VATS attacks. P22 08:22, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
How are you guys doing this testing?--Kingclyde 05:37, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Take a look at example above. I take high crit weapon (according to GECK) put full skill and excellent condition of weapon, some perks that enhance critical chance too, and then do some free fire and some VATS fire and see how common are the criticals. Gatlings are best candidates, since they have ROF of 20, and actually do criticals compared to Miniguns, so if there is difference in critical hit occurrence between two modes of fire it would be most obvious with them.
Original idea was to test some people experience with Precision Gatling Laser when firing in VATS, since they got criticals much more often then would be believed if multiplier was divided by 20. P22 06:01, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ash's numbers, and rewriting the page

Well, what needs to happen is we need to get numbers in the DPS column that are as accurate as possible. I have the data that Ash had finished before leaving. I just don't know how to share it... Additionally, the column headers need to be cleaned up, as the table for unarmed weapons shouldn't refer to reloading. Finally, after that's done we would need to update the individual pages, and remove the sections saying we're working on this. Technically, nobody's working on it now, since I haven't had time...Fiddlesoup 02:23, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

  • You can send me the data and I will do it!R0ND0 10:52, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I've got the Data from Fiddlesoup (thank you for that), but it's incomplete. Especially the crit. chance is not calculated in 98% of the weapons. So give me a little bit time and I try to get it done.R0ND0 09:30, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, I knew it was incomplete, Ash kinda left while we were still collecting the data. If you need any help with that, I could provide that this week. I'm out of class for Spring Break.Fiddlesoup 03:06, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Rifles? Seriously?

I find is odd that some people mention the proper usage of Magazines vs Clips, but nobody seems to find the concept of "Rifle-Shotgun" absurd; the proper term is "long arm(s)", or "long gun(s)" if you prefer. Lasers get a pass because it's part of their name, and being vague future tech leaves the possibility that it is justified in the game's reality.

Actually, I think this is pretty absurd, too. Laser/plasma "rifles" technically aren't rifles. I just use "laser gun" or "plasma gun". PlasmaFox 23:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

It is worded as such, to make easier distinction for which weapons applies Commando, and for which Gunslinger perk. 09:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

What's the best?

I think that there must be a catergory were you can see what's the best(or a note or something) so you can see which is the most powerful instead of making comparissons all the time(same thing with armor)(as depending which character you have).(halfgod)

It's subjective what's "best", hence there shouldn't be such a category. -- Porter21 (talk) 00:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I know but maybe a note or something(for example)


the Hei Gui Chinese stealth suit is a good option/the best armor for a stealth character because of it's cloaking.


the Perforator is a good option for a stealth character because it's silent and it has high damage.

(only the best weapons/armor ofcourse because else it will be too time-consuming). and so you don't have to click on each weapon to find out if anyone prefers it because there will be a note at the end of the column. --Halfgod 17:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

the best weapon damage wise is the misterious strangers .44--5:33pm 13:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

For fucks sake,only pc users can get that,we're talking about everyone in general,but on topic,my favourite weapon,is the backwater rifle,the critcals it scores are amazing,things die quicker and the start flippin' about. Mr.Wolf 14:13, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

blackwater rifle hmmm i will think about it ,thanks wolf Halfgod 16:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Weapon Degradation -- Formula

Is there some sort of formula or something similar for determining degradation (how fast, how much health lost per hit, ...) of Weapons and Armor? If so, this should be posted (at least on the talk page). --Sentinel 101 16:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

New Weapon?

Found browsing the internet... [5] The tesla rocket. It appears to be rocket launcher that fires tesla rounds that has been confirmed by several people on both pc AND 360.--Red366 16:19, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

It's cut content, you can only get it by using the console or glitching. -- Porter21 (talk) 16:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes but it does not as of yet have it's own page, although it is nice to be still finding new weapons even if they aren't in the main game.--Red366 16:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not saying people can't create an article about it, more going at the fact that it's not like an essential new feature of the DLC is missing ;) Adding cut content simply does not have as much of a priority. -- Porter21 (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

It does have its own Page; Beta Tesla cannon, thats what its called, not tesla rocket.Mary roc 11:12, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Broken Steel update

The page still needs to be updated with the new weapons from Broken Steel (see Category:Broken Steel weapons). -- Porter21 (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

More headings that would be helpful

RELOAD TIME -- It's also not clear in the damage-per-second and damage-per-AP whether it assumes having to reload or if it assumes you don't use up the magazine.

MODIFIED DAMAGE PER AP -- there are DPS and MDPS, but there isn't a MDPAP to go with DPAP, to take into account the bonus damage from criticals.

DAMAGE PER MAGAZINE -- Sniper-type rifles are nice if you're picking someone off at your leisure, but in a brawl having that 12-shot magazine in the Combat Shotgun is a big deal! It's helpful to know how much damage you can deal before being interrupted for a reload.

Alien Blaster

Found the alien blaster and another one,but is named Firelance. Is this a glitch or is this gun really in the game?

It's a unique version of the Alien Blaster. See its page. --TheREALBloodscar 10:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
My firelance has 120 damage, unlike the page says here. Adrscu (talk) 21:31, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
That's because you have the pyromaniac perk. It adds 40 base damage if you look at the perk effects on the weapon article infobox. The Gunny  UserGunny chevrons.png 22:41, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

BARE FISTS/HANDS Sorry if this is old news...

What about adding bare fists to the unarmed table. I may not have done enough research on it, but I couldn't even find a page for bare fists/hands. Any ideas?

I'm looking for this one too and can't find it. I need t know the AP cost. -- Blackened (unregistered)

I agree a barefist article is warranted, what the damage would be at 100 unarmed, and what the AP cost is. Obviously such information must be in the GECK.

I believe AP cost of using your bare fists is 22 AP, unsure of the damage though.

Zimmer's Plasma Pistol

While doing the "Replicated Man" quest I decided I wanted to get A3-21's Plasma Rifle and get the "Wired Reflexes" Perk. As such I decided to ask Harkness to allow me to kill Zimmer and he gave me the plasma rifle and then told Zimmer about Harkness and recieved the Perk. I didn't really want to for Harkness to end up back at the Commonwealth so I killed Zimmer and his bodyguard immediately after recieving the perk. At first I wasn't able to loot Zimmer so I did the resurrect command and killed him again. When I looted his body I recieved a unique plasma pistol called "Zimmer's Plasma Pistol", it has the same damage as a regular plasma pistol but doesn't use any ammo and can be repaired with regular plasma pistols. Can someone please look into this and possibly make a page for it?

There is no such thing. I am looking in the GECK and there is no such entry. --MadCat221 18:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


Not being in the GECK doesnt meen it's non existant it's probably just a weird glitch. Insane14 23:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It's an item added on by the Lawbringer Bounties Mod. Check to see if you are using that mod. Throckwoddle 17:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

And there we have our answer. I probably shoulda clarified on the Vanilla bit. In just the FO3.esm, there is no Zimmer's Plasma Pistol. --MadCat221 01:31, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, thank you. I was wondering where that came from in my inventory. RizzleQ 21:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


the special version of Ripper, Jack, has an MDPS value that does not take into account Jack's nature of performing multiple dozens of attacks per second, and is therefore misleading. this should be fixed to make the enormous different between Jack and Ripper clear.

Point Lookout update

can somebody please add stats for point lookout weapons. --Wastelander6969 08:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It looks like the article is missing a few weapons from Point Lookout.Sorry if I missed it on the article but I couldn't find the Ritual knife, Shovel, Fertilizer shovel, or the Toy knife anywhere. I'd try and add them in but I'm still new to wiki, and don't want to mess anything up. --Moltenfungus 23:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm almost done. Amorality 23:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The Double-Barrel Shotgun does 94 damage in perfect condition and when the user has 100 Small Guns Skill.

  • Actually not. This damage is only if you have both damage perks(ghoul ecology and superior defender). The actual max damage without perks is 85.

What about the bio-gas canisters? I seem to have 14 of them... picked them up doing the Antique Land quest? They have an article but aren't listed here... - 21:22, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Melee and Unarmed Columns question

Why aren't the columns for melee and unarmed lined up? They have the exact same info. --AwNNeR 5 05:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


I'm thinking of displaying most unique, rare, and DLC weapons in my house when I get the game. If I could carry one of these weapons with me which should I carry? By the way I'm thinking of making either small guns or energy weapons my main skill.Doylej0131 15:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Take the Gauss Rifle. It's both rare and DLC. If you want unique and DLC, take the MPLX Novasurge.--Amitakartok 22:55, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

What about the unique desintigrator it does alot of damage and ammunition but the only downside is the ammo only being on Zeta. But which do you think is better this or the Gauss Rifle. Because, I think I would prefer something that I should use often, plus the gauss looks cool for being displayed. I don't have the game yet because I wan't the game of the year edition because I wouldn't be able to go on Xbox Live, and I wan't to plan my character out(ie. what skills have the most points, main weapons, etc.)Doylej0131 17:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, I don't wan't to rule out small guns because of the power of some weapons(like the terrible shotgun and the backwater rifle/Lincolns Repeater)Doylej0131 17:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Mothership Zeta Weaponry

Can someone slap up some data for Mothership Zeta—Preceding comment was unsigned. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Yeah, data for MZ weapons needs to be added. -- Porter21 (talk) 07:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Not quite sure but.. weapon glitch?

Well.. i was on the way to do reilly's rangers quest, (to get eugene) and i came across a few super mutant overlords.. and i won't go into details, but when i chose my usual weapon, the 10mm SMG i got from the anchorage simulation because it has some ridiculous 900000 health or something, i noticed it said it had 88 damage... is this normal? i had no drugs or anything and i did'nt think any perks were affecting this (other than superior defender but thats only +5 damage).. any ideas what this might be anyone? (--Demonsnail 10:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC))

  • IT IT because of SUperior Defender.. If you have gotten Ghoul Ecology.. it might effect as well.. Because these perks (Not sure about GE) give +5 per SHOT... it makes it quite useful at automatic weaponry. like Eugene and 10mm submachine gun --NightPhoenix 11:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Projectile numbers should get a display in the table and damage should get marked

With the DLC MZ (and maybe some weapons before) we have gotten important weapon damage differences now and this fact should be immediately visible in the data sheet when comparing the weapons and their damage, because the projectile numbers matter a lot.

This wasn't important before but now we have a few powerful weapons that look very weak but cause a hell of damage.

I suggest something like "damage(x<number of projectiles>)" or a seperate column for the number of projectiles or anything else that is close to the damage value and if there is a separate entry than a special mark at the damage should be placed to indicate a multi-projectile damage. -- 19:51, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

An Idea

I'm sure anyone would be loath to add yet another column to the tables but it would be nice to be able to compare weapons for sneak attacks at a glance with a sortable column instead of having to eyeball it with the DMG and +Crit damage stats. Better yet would be a sneak attack value in and out of VATS (since they're not always the same) as well as a sneak attack value with and without better criticals. So ideally 4 columns in total. Perhaps with the level of clutter already present on these tables this would be counter productive and the appropriate values would be better presented on the Sneak Attack Critical page in a table truncated to include only the best (top 10 or so) sneak attack weapons? 02:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The only weapons that have different sneak critical values in VATS and outside are multiprojectile shotgun weapons. It would be best if it was single column, with parentheses for out of VATS exceptions (like all those devastating shotguns). P22 07:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Are all the shotguns 9 pellet volleys? 16:31, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Depends from weapon to weapon. P22 17:17, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I would also like if MDPS values were removed, because DPS values are not correct for most non-automatic weapons. I mean yes, they are strait from GECK, but they don't show correct damage per second. I know they are used by AI for some calculations (so I guess DPS could stay), but neither DPS or MDPS values give proper average damage for player, so it at least makes MDPS pointless (as guide to the player). Only truly correct thing with DPS is automatic weapon damage (shows damage done in 1/2 second).

Instead, I would like if Attack Shots/Sec values where added. It makes a lot of difference, if for example Hunting Rifle fires 0.75 shots/sec and 25 damage per shot compared to 10mm Pistol that can fire 6shots/sec and do 9 points of damage in every of them. Pistol will outperform such rifle in close range, if you fire quickly outside VATS. In effect, it will have higher "true DPS". Still, it should be noted that it's kinda difficult to get above 3-4shots/sec in actual gameplay, for weapons that are not fully automatic. It may have something to do with mouse input, or there is some hard cap, I don't know. Anyway, in same way how AP values show weapon "speed" in VATS, Attack Shots/Sec values show it outside VATS, so they are pretty much important part of gameplay.

I would also propose if critical multiplier values for automatic weapons are changed a bit. The thing is that, according to testing I've done, multiplier is divided for automatic weapons only when used outside VATS. In VATS, true unmodified multiplier is used (and crit is per volley, not per bullet). Look at the testing notes at this talk page about Precision Gatling Laser. It would probably be best to show both values. Something like "x1.0 (x0.125)", with note that value in parentheses is for single shot outside VATS. P22 07:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

# of Projectiles and SA + BC damage

i made this for personal use since it more accurately describes the statistics i care about in a weapon, namely sneak attack damage. feel free to use it in whole or part for the article.

NAME DMG /SHOT CRITDMG # Projectiles SA + BC + HS Preks + Mod for Difficulty
Callahan\'s Magnum 65 50 1 560 334.95
Lincoln\'s Repeater 50 50 1 500 300.3
Blackhawk 55 45 1 490 294.53
Backwater Rifle 45 45 1 450 271.43
The Terrible Shotgun 80 40 9 2480 1443.75
Lever-Action Rifle 40 40 1 400 242.55
Reservist\'s Rifle 40 40 1 400 242.55
Sniper Rifle 40 40 1 400 242.55
Victory Rifle 40 40 1 400 242.55
Paulson\'s Revolver 45 35 9 2070 1206.98
Scoped .44 Magnum 35 35 1 350 213.68
Double-Barrel Shotgun 85 30 9 1960 1143.45
Ol\' Painless 30 30 1 300 184.8
Railway Rifle 30 30 1 300 184.8
Combat Shotgun 55 27 9 1678 980.6
Hunting Rifle 25 25 1 250 155.93
Wild Bill\'s Sidearm 10 15 1 130 86.63
Perforator 10 14 1 124 83.16
Colonel Autumn\'s 10mm Pistol 13 13 1 130 86.63
Xuanlong Assault Rifle 12 12 1 120 80.85
Dart Gun 6 12 1 96 66.99
Chinese Assault Rifle 11 10 1 104 71.61
Infiltrator 7 10 1 88 62.37
Sydney\'s 10mm \"Ultra\" SMG 9 9 1 90 63.53
10mm Pistol 9 9 1 90 63.53
Assault Rifle 8 8 1 80 57.75
10mm SMG 7 7 1 70 51.98
.32 Pistol 6 6 1 60 46.2
Silenced 10mm Pistol 8 5 1 62 47.36
Chinese Pistol 4 4 1 40 34.65
Zhu-Rong v418 Chinese Pistol 4 4 1 40 34.65
B.B. Gun 4 4 1 40 34.65
The Kneecapper 75 0 9 300 184.8
Sawed-Off Shotgun 50 12 9 848 501.27
Laser Pistol 12 12 1 120 80.85
Smuggler\'s End 18 18 1 180 115.5
Protectron\'s Gaze 24 24 5 816 482.79
Colonel Autumn\'s Laser Pistol 10 22 1 172 110.88
Plasma Pistol 25 25 1 250 155.93
Alien Blaster 100 100 1 1000 706.86
Firelance 120 120 1 1200 845.46
Laser Rifle 23 22 1 224 140.91
Wazer Wifle 28 28 1 280 173.25
Plasma Rifle 45 44 1 444 267.96
A3-21\'s Plasma Rifle 50 50 1 500 300.3
Mesmetron 1 0 1 4 13.86
Gauss Rifle 100 50 1 700 415.8
Metal Blaster 55 27 9 1678 980.6
Tri-Beam Laser Rifle 75 15 3 570 340.73
Tesla Cannon 40 30 1 340 207.9
Microwave Emitter 60 100 1 840 496.65
Alien Atomizer 35 40 1 380 277.2
Atomic Pulverizer 37 40 1 388 282.74
Captain\'s Sidearm 35 40 6 1580 1108.8
MPLX Novasurge 80 75 1 770 456.23
Alien Disintegrator 65 50 1 560 401.94
Destabilizer 30 20 1 240 180.18

the last column is meant to be a calculation of damage with all +damage perks (not including goul ecology) on the hardest difficulty setting. Tetracycloide 01:14, September 14, 2009 (UTC)


I'm suprised the superior version of the gatling laser, aka (Vengeance) is not listed in this article. It is a drop from a supermutant around and near Vault-Tec HQ. At full CND it does 305 damage and only weighs 18 lbs. --DeathsFlagShip 04:03, October 27, 2009 (UTC)DeathsFlagShip

i laugh at your stupidity(HA HA)look, here's the thing...unique weapons sometimes, albeit very rarely, end up in the hands of normal enemy's, this in no way,yes, NO WAY means its dropped, there have been repeated accounts of people finding talon company merc's with the victory rifle, and although its highly unlikely, though possible...(maybe enemy's don't spawn if your not there?) that the super mutants could get through the entirety of the death-claw sanctuary, and grab vengeance, keep in mind though, it is not a drop, it is just very very rarely dropped by enemy's,(i suspect you can lose items through this same way as well) like, enemy's dieing then you not getting there in time to pick it up.Toolazytomakeaaccount 06:20, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Weapons Damage Calculation

Can it be, the damage some weapons make is dependent on the players level?

My char is now at level 27, after completing the mainquest my karma was set to neutral so i had to switch from jericho to charon as my partner.

As i looked into my weapons locker for a good "small gun" for charon i was astonished about some damage ratings e.g.

10 mm SMG -> 90 Damage
Chinese Assault Rifle -> 97 Damage

These Values didn't match any value on your list. Can someone explain this?

Small Gun skill is @100 since level 20, where these guns didn't the same amount of damage

-- 16:00, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

VATS-Specific Damage/AP Calculations

First post, so I apologize for any format / etiquette / other inadequacies.

I've been trying to determine which weapons have the 'best' damage/AP in VATS. I've read the weapons page, the talkback, and the MDPS explanation, but am not sure that I understand everything, especially with regards to the VATS framework.


  • All shots hit
  • 'Infinite' AP for comparisons sake (to avoid 'break-point' iregularities)
  • Ignore reload AP costs (for simplicity)
  • Start with small guns (for simplicity)

I'm having a tougher time than I thought I might. Here's what I tried:

  • Damage / shot from this wiki, +10 for ghoul ecology and defender perks
  • Shots / 'burst' when using AP (1 for most, 3 assault rifles, 4 SMG)
  • Critical multiplier from this wiki x 15% for my crit % (10 luck + 5 finesse)
  • Critical damage from this wiki
  • Action Points / burst from this wiki

This approach leads to Sydney's SMG being highest. The calculation:

  • 9+10 = 19 damage/shot
  • 4 shots/burst
  • calc: 76 damage / burst
  • crit % = .1% x 15 = 1.5%/shot
  • 9 critical damage/critical shot
  • calc 76.5 damage/burst (76+ 4x1.5%x9)
  • 20 AP/burst
  • 3.83 damage/AP spent

So... I'm guessing that this result is wrong or that my impressions of using the weapons in play is incorrect. Can anyone help me please? Thanks for any methodological improvements you can suggest.

--The bruiser 03:29, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

In V.A.T.S., the critical chance, after the critical multiplier is applied, is increased by 15%. So, your DMG/AP would be,
Your calculations look correct otherwise. However, the DMG/AP stat in the weapon list does not take account for perks and critical hits. For the Sydney's SMG, the DMG/AP stat is 1.80 as it says.--Ehplee 20:17, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
(I'm new so not sure if I'm doing this 'edit' correctly but here goes.)
I went back and added my 50% better criticals perk. So if I'm doing this right, for someone with finesse, better criticals, ghoul ecology, and superior defender, the best small guns (ignoring range considerations!) in VATS are (in order)
Callahan's Magnum 4.35
Sydney's SMG 4.25
Terrible Shotgun 4.00
Backwater Rifle 3.86
Lincoln's Repeater 3.75
10mm SMG 3.75
Lever-Action Rifle 3.47
Xuanlong Assault Rifle 3.27
Reservist's Rifle 3.25
Double-Barrel Shotgun 3.10
Does that pass the 'sniff test' to all you folks out there? I guess the next considerations would be range (sorry Sydney SMG and shotguns) and reloading (sorry double-barrel and Reservist Rifle).
Hmmmm - just a surprise to me I guess! Any feedback/color/fixes would be appreciated.
Also - am I the only one who plays in VATS mostly? For someone like me this would seem to be THE most important statistic to have on the table. Maybe it's the uncertainty of what perks to include that's the problem/holdup?--The bruiser 02:56, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
So I went back and added energy weapons and big guns to the mix. Here's the list of top 20 weapons overall. This is just so different from what I expected to find! At least in some ways... no surprise to see Firelance up top.
Firelance 15.50x
Alien Blaster 13.00x
MPLX Novasurge 7.50x
Atomic Pulverizer 6.17x
Drone Cannon 5.75x
Drone Cannon Ex-B 5.75x
Metal Blaster 4.72x
Gauss Rifle 4.67x
Microwave Emitter 4.58x
Heavy Incinerator 4.47x
Callahan's Magnum 4.35x
Sydney's 10mm "Ultra" SMG 4.25x
Tri-Beam Laser Rifle 4.06x
Tesla Cannon 4.06x
The Terrible Shotgun 4.00x
A3-21's Plasma Rifle 3.98x
Vengeance 3.97x
Backwater Rifle 3.86x
Lincoln's Repeater 3.75x
10mm SMG 3.75x
I understand that the Metal Blaster for instance is awesome for a freehand sneak (multi-crits). But using it in VATS seemed unimpressive. What am I missing? For instance, could DR for enemies a fixed 'absorption' rather than a % negated type effect? If so, that would clearly be a case for higher DMG weapons as opposed to higher ROF weapons.
Note that I'm not sure how many shots/burst are fired by miniguns, Eugene, and the Gatling Lasers, so I used 5 - if that number should be higher then they would clearly move up. (I'm not in a position to fire up the game just now.)
The Metal Blaster has a really low AP cost obviously - but even with a ton of shots it seemed FAR less effective at bringing down enemies on Very Hard than, say, Xuanlong or Lincoln's Repeater with full AP committed (100 skill and repair for all). What am I missing?
One last question - I know there's a lot above about not cluttering the tables, but would it make sense to add a column for "Perfect" Damage/AP? The column would assume 100 skill, 100 repair, and all relevant perks have been taken.--The bruiser 03:42, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a site admin, but I believe that all the statistics listed in all of the articles should be base values only (i.e. no perks, no critical hits, 100 skill). This is to prevent bias towards any one of many possible character builds, so it's basically "the uncertainty of what perks to include," as you said. I'm not saying that your findings are useless (they can be quite useful, actually), but they should be left in this Discussion page; people do read Discussion pages, and do use them to discuss different strategies.
From what I've read around this site, multi-shot weapons like the Metal Blaster have critical hits and critical damage applied separately to each individual shot only outside of V.A.T.S. In V.A.T.S., the critical damage is applied to one shot only, which is why it seems unimpressive.--Ehplee 00:36, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
The Metal Blaster, if it does not get a Critical an VATS, only does 55 damage. If it does, it gets 82. However, if the Metal Blaster gets a Sneak critical, it gets 27x2(sneak bonus)=54x1.5(better criticals)=81x1.5 again(headshot)=121.5x9(nine beams)=1093.5. That is what makes the Metal Blaster the power weapon it is. It sucks in VATS, but outside of VATS, you can 1-shot Deathclaws.-- 00:08, December 16, 2009 (UTC)Hollow Points

Weapon Ranges

Is there an official 'range' statistic for weapons, whether inside or outside of VATS? Clearly farther away chance to hit decreases, but is there something that measures this directly? I.e., the sniper rifle is capped at X units and % hit decreases at some rate to this figure, while an SMG has a presumably smaller value of X?

I know that the spread value is somehow tied up in this but I suspect that that does not tell the whole story. For instance, the sniper rifle, Lincoln Repeater, Reservist Rifle, etc., all have spread of 0, but I seem to have different experiences (at same skill and repair levels 100%) in terms of how far each can shoot in terms of maximum distance freehand and in terms of accuracy at the same distance.

Anyone have any color to help here? I'd really like to know what weapon has the best 'range'. Or maybe this concept isn't applicable because there's some other form of math going on behind the curtain? I'd really appreciate any insight.

PS - I've played the game through three times and just now decided to try taking part in the wiki... this could be dangerous for my spare time...--The bruiser 03:01, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

I know that the Sniper Rifle, it's unique variants, and the Gauss Rifle have practically infinite range outside of V.A.T.S. The moment enemies spawn in the distance, I could bring up the scope and pick them off. See the Sniper rifle page for reference images for shooting targets at very long range, since the shots do not go exactly where the center of the scope is aimed before you press the fire button. The Spread statistic applies outside of V.A.T.S. only, and it is a measure of how wide the "cone" of fire is (not sure what units it's in). I also noticed that outside of V.A.T.S., the game sometimes auto-aims and goes for the enemies' legs, even though they are behind cover. I'm not aware of any reliable information on how this auto-aim works.--Ehplee 00:53, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Sawed off Shotguns

I save a game just before entering the electronics store where the three raiders with SMG's and a missile launcher jump you. Pretty nasty fight. I tried playing it many times with all the choices of weapons and sawed off shotgun is supposed to have 100 MDPS (I have black widow) but it performed very badly. Combat shotgun performed better than the MDPS stat implies because it knocks them back and they have trouble responding. So:

  1. Is the sawed-off shotgun stats correct? It has reload every 2 shots and no crit so how can it be 100 MDPS?
  2. Anyone have stuff on knockback effects of each weapon? The laser pistol has 77 MDPS (almost as much as a combat shotgun) but as you fire they keep fighting back so even though the MDPS looks good it doesn't lower the enemies MDPS on you. The laser pistol(rifle) was good the first round to take 4 accurate shots against the missile launcher to disarm it or make it useless. ~alatari 18:02, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

shotguns have a unique quality similar to the assault weapons, the damage is multiplied by the amount of pellets that hit someone, and the sawed off shotgun has a large spread, making it useless except for up close, plus the 2 shot thing gets annoying.Toolazytomakeaaccount 18:15, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

tenpenny tower

i already got susan lancaster as a slave so i cant ask her about the gouls what should i do

object ids

where do i find the object ids? the geck? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeRyan (talkcontribs). Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

Well, you can find them there. You can also simply visit the article for the weapon you want to know the ID of; they are listed in the infobox. -- Porter21 (talk) 19:12, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
well the id for the simulation weapos of 10mm and tha assault rifles are wrong thats why i asked.
It just said incorrect id or something when i tried player.additem
MikeRyan 18:27, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
Let me guess. You entered the "xx12345" code with the x's, right? Nitty Tok. 18:30, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
i know how add item works i entered 02(thats how anchorage is loaded for me)but nothing happened
so no i didn't type xx MikeRyan 06:34, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
I will add the object ID's here so that it saves people the trouble of having the consult the G.E.C.K, or having to go to seperate pages to find the information. Its just for convenience, the other pages do this so I can't understand why the weapons page should be any different.TheUnbeholden 08:56, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Damage per second

How does this number make any sense for single-shot weapons and single-hit melee weapons? I understand the figure for fire damage. I don't understand what it even means for a pistol shot.--Gothemasticator 21:13, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Not sure whether I understand your question. DPS is simply "damage per attack" multiplied with the "number of possible attacks per second" - think of it as a theoretical maximum. For single-shot weapons the figure is somewhat inaccurate (too high usually) since it does not take reloading times or clip sizes into account; that's what the more advanced calculations like MDPS are for (which try to take criticals and reloading into account).
On a sidenote, the DPS numbers shown in our weapon infoboxes are a bit more advanced than the basic definition since they at least take certain special cases into account. They still don't factor in reloading times due to lack of an accurate way to measure that (and a whole other can of worms I don't want to bore you with ;) ). If you're interested in the details, there's a whole lot of discussion about DPS and other weapon stats on Template talk:Infobox weapon gamebryo. -- Porter21 (talk) 22:56, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation and the link. I was confused by the description in the legend in this article, since it does not explain the "damage per attack multiplied by attacks per second" bit.--Gothemasticator 00:33, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Weapon sorting, new and old

There is a section of just the new weapons from the add-ons, but they are also mixed in with the general lists. Seems like they should maybe be removed from them if they have their own section, so players who do not have the add-ons (like me) don't have to sort out the new weapons. Seems pointless relisting any weapons twice.

The M199 Assault Rifle

I was in the museum of technology a while ago, and i saw a reference to a M199 Assault Rifle. Does anyone have any information regarding this weapon? Could it possible be the Military Assault Rifle we see in New Vegas?Exeter17 23:45, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Operation Anchorage Simulation Weapons

I have noticed that there is no mention of the weapons used during operation anchorage, that is the weapons inside the simulation, These weapons have higher hp and look less worn than their non simulation counterparts. Not only that, but they are also obtainable outside the simulation via gary 23 exploitation, I would add these items with the name OA SIM (weapons name here) next to their non sim counterparts, however I do not know their stats, If someone could give me the stats (specificaly anything that is not the same as their counterpart) or just add the weapon themselves that would be great and make the article more complete Superinsomniac 22:31, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Although I partially agree with you about their mention, I think they wouldn't be added because of the very small part of the game they play, plus the fact that they are not obtainable in the 'real world'. But then again, the same arguement could be said for the simulated rolling pin. Chaos ian7 04:42, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

They're mentioned on the respective article page; no need to also mention 'em here. --Kris User Hola.jpg 04:55, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Probably for the best then. Chaos ian7 00:22, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


Ever since the last edit, the templates for the guns are cut off and you have to zoom in just to see the whole table. Great Mara 22:04, March 25, 2011 (UTC)


As editing is locked, can anyone who can edit please fix the typos of the ammunitions used? We got a lot of rounnd or rouund etc. and that makes the sorting hardly useful. BigDuke66 14:27, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Scoped Weapons

How about expanding the categories of weapon type and add scoped weapons? I think it could be useful to differentiate between weapons with and without scopes. --BigDuke66 21:27, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Still no Bio-Gas canister

Its been 7 years since someone mentioned the lack of the Point Lookout bio-gas canister grenade. I was looking for it myself until I tried search-boxing the name and found the page.

Yet there's still no section for the weapon on this grid. The page exists, theres just no mention of it on this weapons page. I'd do it but I know little about templates or whatnot, I'll probably just break something. PaulReverend (talk) 03:16, March 17, 2017 (UTC)

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