This talk page is only for discussing improvements to the page "Civilized Man's Burden."

Sheer lunacy Edit

Whoever would think that Kipling's "The White Man's Burden" is anything other than a celebration of imperialism? It presents imperialism as a moral duty. Mind you, Kipling is not a Fascist, as he is sometimes ignorantly called. He's an old-fashioned British Imperial Conservative, which is a horse of another color. He can admit frankly that some of the oppressed are superior in some ways to their imperial masters: "Though I've belted you and flayed you / By the living God that made you / You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!" He can conceive of a day when the British Empire is no more than a memory, "one with Nineveh and Tyre." But he is still utterly committed to the imperial project, all the more so because he sees it as an altruistic attempt to spread "civilization" rather than grinding the faces of the poor (a classic case of what is called "false consciousness"). "The White Man's Burden" was in fact written to warn Americans, who were innocently enthusiastic about their new acquisitions in the Philippines, that "educating" and "civilizing" people who had no desire for such "gifts" could be a disheartening business: "The ports ye may not enter / The roads ye may not tread / Go make them with your living / And mark them with your dead." Kipling was afraid that the Americans would get discouraged and give up on imperialism, not that imperialism was wrong.

I'm not going to get into a change/change back war, since that's a futile exercise on a wiki. But I have taught these subjects at a university level -- and someone just got an F. Wunengzi 18:07, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Dare I ask what this has to do with the quest? - Redmess (talk) 19:02, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

What happens to Follows-Chalk if you tell him to stay? Edit

If you tell follows chalk to stay will you be able to ever see him again? For that matter can you return to Zion after you finish the main quest?

IIRC, you can go back to Zion after leaving, but all named characters will have disappeared. You can still explore the canyon, though. Wunengzi 09:12, May 28, 2011 (UTC)
Wunengzi is correct. You can return to Zion regardless of how you finish the DLC, but none of the main characters will be around. --Venato 08:41, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Quest ID? Edit

I was wondering, where is the quest ID. I've encountered a bug and tried to forward the quest to compensate but I cannot find the proper ID anywhere in the article. Come to think of it, I've seldom seen any Quest ID's anywhere on the site.

Nevermind, the Form ID is the same as the Quest ID. Sorry about that.

He was never seen again? Edit

Why did they bother including that detail? I don't suppose there's any indication of whether he survived more than 5 minutes after he arrived in Nevada. Noobyorkcity (talk) 05:06, March 2, 2019 (UTC)

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