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Untitled
I'd wish to take some time to comment on the "Behind the scenes" section of this article.
The description of the pistol mentioning that it is a single-shot handgun is is most likely a misnomad of "semi-auto" on behalf of the developers, otherwise the gun would've had only one round in capacity and have the magazine removed from it's rendered picture.
Even if the 14mm round is a fictional handgun ammunition in the Fallout universe, then why is it compared to existing anti-material rounds like the .50 BMG and the 14.5x114mm? Making the assumption that two different types of cartridges are relevant because of their similar bullet diameters is like bringing up My Little Pony as being relevant in an article about The Black Stallion because they are both fictional horses.
193.11.130.101 16:47, January 20, 2010 (UTC)somelurker
- Not so, if My Little Pony was brought up because it looked similar or something, then I could've seen your point. The cartridges were not brought up purely because they are bullets, but also because they are similar in diameter. HeadManiac 01:19, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
Removal
Shouldn't we get rid of the 12.7mm pistol from this page? After all, the page is called "14mm pistol", not "High powered pistols". If something is on a certain page, it should pertain to that page. Best regards, Kastera talk 22:25, March 14, 2011 (UTC)
Article name
Having them separate at 14mm and 12.7mm was better; the P220 Sig Sauer is also a SIG-Sauer pistol and has nothing to do with the 12.7mm or 14mm models. >.> Nitty Tok. 12:35, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
- Not really. P220 is from FOT, whereas the SS Auto is an original weapon built for Fallout 1.
Tagaziel (call!) 19:47, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
12.7mm pistol
The 12.7mm pistol needs to be removed from this page. There is absolutely nothing in the game files or game lore that even implies this is made by Sig. We have no developer comments related to it either. If we get to use visually similar as the threshold to call this weapon a Sig, then I want to see the laser RCW on the tommy gun page, since it looks about as close to a tommy gun as this does to a 14mm pistol. The Gunny 
21:25, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed, it has been removed, the only evidence provided is that it looks similar. By that rationale, the Chinese assault rifle should share a page with the AK somewhere, the Marksman Carbine, the Service Rifle and the Assault carbine should share a page as well but they don't because we have no evidence saying they are the same guns beyond appearance. Richie9999 (talk) 22:18, January 23, 2015 (UTC)
Crusader pistol
This is the exact same situation as the Plasma Defender from New Vegas. I'm adding it back based on the precedence set by that weapon's appearance since the appearance of the chimera and sig-sauer is nearly 1:1. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 16:21, October 4, 2020 (UTC)
- It's far from the exact same situation, as the Plasma Defender is almost exactly the same. The Chimera pistol only really bears a passing resemblance to the gun. I can compromise that we can add a note saying the pistol bears resemblance to it, of which I added to the parent article, but Brane removed it. However, to call it the same weapon is disingenuous. JCB2077 (talk) 16:34, October 4, 2020 (UTC)
- I don't know anything about weaponry, but I do know the policy states that we can only add this information if 1) we have a direct quote from a developer or 2) the gun has the exact same name. Barring these, we can't say for sure. -kdarrow
take her for a spin! 16:41, October 4, 2020 (UTC)
- I don't know anything about weaponry, but I do know the policy states that we can only add this information if 1) we have a direct quote from a developer or 2) the gun has the exact same name. Barring these, we can't say for sure. -kdarrow
- The policy is geared towards comparisons to real-world weapons, it isn't meant to deal with game world weapons. Great Mara (talk) 16:47, October 4, 2020 (UTC)
- What Mara said, and if that was true, then we have to remove all info about the Plasma Defender being the Glock 86, but that'd be a mistake because they're still obviously the same despite having different names. Also the Chimera isn't a passing resemblance, it's near-identical. The only difference is how it loads ammo with a horizontal magazine instead of a vertical magazine. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 16:51, October 4, 2020 (UTC)
- Near-identical depends on the eye of the beholder. The only reason the 14mm and 12.7mm exist as the same gun at all is because 1. They're made by the SIG-Sauer company, and 2. The 12.7mm reduced its ammunition caliber in exchange for a slightly higher ammunition capacity. The Chimera, on the other hand, is (by way of conjecture gathered from the game's files) a government weapon the First Expeditionary Force recovered from a government facility, same with the Brotherhood Launcher (bearing a resemblance to the M202 FLASH). Even if we were to base it on simple logic alone, the SIG-Sauer is not an American pistol, as 14mm ammo comes from overseas, and was not kept in government facilities for presumably prototype weapons. So like I said, there can be compromise in saying it bears a resemblance to it, but calling the Chimera a variant of the SIG-Sauer is like calling the Multiplas Rifle or Plasma Gatling a REPCONN weapon, or the Recharger guns Poseidon Energy weapons. JCB2077 (talk) 16:59, October 4, 2020 (UTC)
- Crusader pistol may be inferred as the spiritual successor / new art direction for the 12.7mm pistol but only with a Behind the Scenes tag to handle uncertainty. The weapon using 10mm round (Fallout 76) instead of 12.7mm round or 14mm (Van Buren) is following the ammo simplification trend 76 has been running. I'm referring to the exclusion of .45-70 and 7.62 round. We should acknowledge that 10mm rounds are, for gameplay reasons, an umbrella for 9mm, 12.7mm and 14mm, should any weapons that use these IRL or previous titles make an appearance.
Scribe-Howard (waster93) (talk) 03:36, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
12.7mm =/=Sig-Sauer
I'm with Intrepid359 on this, we have no actual evidence for these two being related besides appearance. I don't see any reason why it should be listed, and tbh I'm only leaving this on the talk page to avoid an edit war. Aiden4017 (talk) 04:36, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Dave added a new source that seems to connect the designs of the 12.7mm and the 14mm, though I'm not sure that it connects the 12.7mm to SIG. Dozens of companies can make the same firearm based on the same design, especially designs adopted by large militaries.
- intrepid3598/2/21 [11:58pm]
- IMO, whether or not it was made by SIG-Sauer really doesn't matter. It's just that it is a design of SIG-Sauer's. That's why I didn't put "SIG-Sauer 12.7mm pistol" as the title of its section. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 05:15, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- I re-read the source, and it says that the 12.7mm takes its "basic design cues" from the 14mm, which is a far cry from saying they are the same weapon. It looks like we have Dauntless, Aiden, and myself all in agreement that the connection isn't there.
- intrepid3598/3/21 [12:35am]
- Well, I'm down for opening up to a wider community vote about how this is handled or changing the name of the article to reflect that they're not all SIG-Sauer. Because this appears to me to be the same situation with the .223 pistol and That Gun. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 05:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- IMO, whether or not it was made by SIG-Sauer really doesn't matter. It's just that it is a design of SIG-Sauer's. That's why I didn't put "SIG-Sauer 12.7mm pistol" as the title of its section. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 05:15, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- intrepid your signature is 999 pages long. I agree with Aiden and intrepid. This doesn't need a community vote - just consensus. One standalone editor vs three. Is that consensus? DauntlessX (talk) 06:24, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- I'm also saying they aren't the same exact pistol and we should just change the name of SIG-Sauer pistol to something else, which I'm more in favor of and the talk is more about it being made by SIG-Sauer. The pistols are clearly meant to be the similar just by their designs alone, and FNV already has established it liked taking the weapons from FO1/2. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 06:41, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Scrolling up, it looks like community members have expressed their concerns about this spanning back awhile. My thoughts here, the purpose of an overview page is to link items that are the same, but appear in different games, to their respective independent articles. Not to connect design inspirations from developers, or group items that look similar, that isn't the purpose of an overview. Not to say that behind the scenes information isn't valuable, but those references belong more-so on the relevant game-specific article. - kdarrow take her for a spin! 06:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think the page is p good right now with the gallery pointing out the similar designs, which is really what I want the most. Only complaint is that there needs to be some more meat on the 14mm section. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 07:20, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Scrolling up, it looks like community members have expressed their concerns about this spanning back awhile. My thoughts here, the purpose of an overview page is to link items that are the same, but appear in different games, to their respective independent articles. Not to connect design inspirations from developers, or group items that look similar, that isn't the purpose of an overview. Not to say that behind the scenes information isn't valuable, but those references belong more-so on the relevant game-specific article. -
- I'm also saying they aren't the same exact pistol and we should just change the name of SIG-Sauer pistol to something else, which I'm more in favor of and the talk is more about it being made by SIG-Sauer. The pistols are clearly meant to be the similar just by their designs alone, and FNV already has established it liked taking the weapons from FO1/2. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 06:41, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
14mm importation
Are there any other references for this? Because the current one does not support 14mm being imported from Europe. Buster doesn't even call it a foreign import, so for all we know he could be talking about 14mm being imported into California from a different state (probably isn't the case, but still). I mean the fact the 14mm pistol is referred to as being made by Sig-Sauer doesn't make the ammo reference concrete, just because only the 14mm pistol uses it doesn't mean they made the ammunition. Aiden4017 (talk) 20:08, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- I think the thought is that SIG-Sauer is Swiss, so therefore to import a 14mm pistol you'd have to get it from overseas. I don't think it has anything to do with the ammo. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 20:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, but the game doesn't specify that. Sure we can make the inference, but we don't have anything to truly back it up. For all we know Sig-Sauer had a completely different history in Fallout, and might even have moved out of Europe. Aiden4017 (talk) 20:35, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Well it's imported, something imported can't be from the same country, I think import/export that only applies to foreign countries. And I do think SIG is kind of safe to assume its from Europe as SIG stands for Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft. Though I doubt we'll ever see anything actually using the actual company name again for copyright reasons that weren't a concern in the 90s. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 20:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- While the company itself if European, there is actually a SIG Sauer factory stateside, but whether this translates the same into Fallout can't really be said. Great Mara (talk) 20:58, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- The line calls in a "pre-war import", I'm just saying on the definition of import that it can't come from within the US and had to come from somewhere abroad. And how Buster automatically assumes 14mm implies the 14mm is not American made. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 21:48, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- While the company itself if European, there is actually a SIG Sauer factory stateside, but whether this translates the same into Fallout can't really be said. Great Mara (talk) 20:58, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Well it's imported, something imported can't be from the same country, I think import/export that only applies to foreign countries. And I do think SIG is kind of safe to assume its from Europe as SIG stands for Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft. Though I doubt we'll ever see anything actually using the actual company name again for copyright reasons that weren't a concern in the 90s. Devastating DaveZIP ZAP RAP 20:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah, but the game doesn't specify that. Sure we can make the inference, but we don't have anything to truly back it up. For all we know Sig-Sauer had a completely different history in Fallout, and might even have moved out of Europe. Aiden4017 (talk) 20:35, 3 August 2021 (UTC)