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Forum:Video has landed

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Video has landed on 5 pages.

Ballistic weave, Cait, Curie, Fallout 4 weapons, and Piper Wright are the pages now with video.

I want to collect and curate feedback here. Please view the videoes and add your thoughts below, and we'll send it to Brandon as a bulk load. Put your thought as a bullet point and sign your name, each thought should have its own bullet. Agent c (talk) 00:16, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Ballistic Weave[]

  • Possibly does not meet our editorial standards at certain points, as some suggestions are possible strategy.Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • The video tells people to "Check out Nukapedia" - they're already here. If they're not already here, the video does not explain how to get here.Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • Refers to Jackpot as a mission, which conflicts with the wiki and the game. "Radiant quests" or just quests would have better fit in with our standards. As a community we could do better. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:42, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Cait[]

  • "Lets watch this guy get shot again, there that makes me feel better" "lets watch this one more time". Enough said. This does not meet our editorial standards as it is completely unprofessional. Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • The constant UI - including mouse pointer - does not meet our standards. Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • The video tells people to "Check out Nukapedia" - they're already here. If they're not already here, the video does not explain how to get here.Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • Also, i would like to add on that once the video is done, "recommended videos" will pop up, which is totally unrelated to the article itself. This should not be there.--Overseer X (talk) 02:10, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • "After killing the Raiders, you buy her contract". The contract is given to you, not bought. The constant "let's watch this guys head explode" is extremely annoying as well. Skysteam (talk)
  • So Cait, the content relating directly to Cait is factual, the guy getting shot though does not fit in without our editorial standards, UI I could potentially overlook, but because this video has been spliced from other video's, the constant change it UI color make it look unprofessional. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:38, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • Well I finally got this video to play and it seems a bit unprofessional. Not just because of the attempt at humor but just the quality of the video isn't the greatest. The attempt at humor was bad though. JBour53

Curie[]

  • "What did you do hero, thats right, you sat around as a popsicle..." "...You can do way better than popsicle dude" Enough said. This does not meet our editorial standards as it is completely unprofessional.
  • The constant UI - including mouse pointer - does not meet our standards. Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • The video tells people to "Check out Nukapedia" - they're already here. If they're not already here, the video does not explain how to get here.Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • The video has mentioned Curie as a "Sole Survivor". Then wouldnt all the other robots in the commonwealth be "Sole Surivors" too? More thought has to be placed into make these videos.--Overseer X (talk) 02:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • "Someone is better at Sole Survivoring" grammatically incorrect, makes my ears hurt to hear it. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:49, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • There is far more non-Curie content in the videos than actual Curie related video. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:49, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • Making light of a very serious subject, your spouse getting murdered. Leaves a very bad taste in my mouth personally. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:49, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Fallout 4 weapons[]

  • "Five of our favourite weapons" is completely not compliant with our editorial guidelines.
  • The individual weapon descriptions could potentially work on the individual weapon pages... although at points they do editorialise too much. Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • Can someone please explain why the same portion of the video (the guy with the power armor jumping off the building shooting) was used repeatedly within the videos? I see the same screen during the Curie video where they explained what Curie meant.Overseer X (talk) 02:23, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • It's just so... boring. The droning monotone voice is just going to make users mute the video. To me, the name (our favorite weapons) makes it sound like this person is somehow affiliated with Nukapedia. Which other than having his video on the website, he isn't. Skysteam (talk)
  • I'm with Skystream on this one, "Our favourite weapons" She have been decided by us, the community. As far as I am aware this is the choice of one person. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:53, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • This video probably signifies Fandom's disregard for us more than all the others, because they just put that title there without asking us what we thought. They just went ahead and asked this one random guy, and assumed his opinion was somehow more important than the editors who actually work here. NomadMC (talk) 10:07, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Piper[]

  • The Allusion to trump "Journalist demonised by a politician who accuses her of making fake news, not like we have this in the real world..." This is not appropriate in the article space Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • The video tells people to "Check out Nukapedia" - they're already here. If they're not already here, the video does not explain how to get here.Agent c (talk) 00:15, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Comments[]

I watched all of that mess, and, frankly, the general content-quality disgusts me.

I was really really really hoping that Wikia/Fandom would put more effort into this nonsense, and as it currently stands, I am really sorry that Nukapedia is going to have to deal with this new(ish) feature. Here's hoping that the future will bring better tidings... 寧靜 01:26, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

  • The uh video quality is terrible. Its grainy, and as mentioned by Agent c, completely unprofessional. I highly suggest that they get a moderator from this wiki to work on the videos with them to ensure that the videos comply within the standards. Also, that voice is just so... Argh nevermind. Overseer X (talk) 02:18, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
  • All the videos started off muted. Is there any way they can fix it? Overseer X (talk) 02:29, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'm personally not a fan of any of these. They are poorly made, go against our guidelines, and don't do justice to any of the characters. This is the exact reason I wasn't a fan of this being forced on us. Unless we have a professional make them with a Moderator/Admin's input they will never be up to the quality that we strive for. I wouldn't call any of them salvageable. Rebel427 ~ I'll be your huckleberry 02:39, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

This is a wiki, it's supposed to be informative, not opinionated. Also, as Agent C stated (albeit more politely) the "Check out Nukapedia" parts are completely and utterly pointless. Yodamort (talk) 02:56, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

If the videos are well done like those on the Star Wars wikia, they can work. It's obvious that little effort was put into these videos though, so they are completely useless. The creator has some weird sense of humor which nobody else seems to find funny, making these videos plainly annoying. Skysteam (talk)

I was aware of video being somewhat present the other day, but I didn't see anything like this. Decided it was an annoyance more than any and moved on.
I haven't even looked at the videos yet, I would like to make one thing very clear: Fandom were to come back to us about video. They knew we were cautious about this, but not entirely against the idea. They promised to come back within a week with a script, but instead wrote, created and determined the video to meet our standards without consultation.
Fandom is free to make these changes by their own ToU, but we are their volunteer content providers, who have plowed many hours into this place to make it what it is as generate their hits. Enforcing this when we were willing to and they had agreed to work with us, feels like a violation of trust.
This statement has been made before seeing the videos, I will add more once I have seen them. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:10, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Watching these just about made my darned head explode. I've seen Fandom do some stuff to make me aggro before... But at least those things were ignorable, darnit. This really takes the cake. My head is steaming right now. If the guy who made these were standing in front of me right now, I'd throw him across the room and force him to take down the videos with whatever threat I could conjure up. I have no tolerance for this. At all. If Fandom tries to make this mainstream, let's just say I won't be here much longer (and hopefully we'll have moved too). The idea that you can possibly make a fact-grounded wiki have opinionated, below-quality content forced in your face is beyond me, and it's shocking to me that it wasn't beyond Fandom too. This is beyond even their standards. NomadMC (talk) 03:56, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I will put it this way: if an ordinary user edited one of these pages to add content like this in-article and wrote it like the guy in the video talked, I don't think there is a single admin here who wouldn't revoke the edit on grounds of poor grammar, opinionization, sensualization, overall lack of wiki quality, overall lack of any quality, and lack of any beneficial or helpful content in the edit. NomadMC (talk) 03:56, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I had no opinion on piper, but I do need to draw attention to a little problem they have created with our layout... again. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 04:01, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ You know... I was dreading actually visiting an article, and seeing what they look like. But after your comment just now, I went ahead and bit my cheek and did so on the Cait article. And bam. Right there, in front of my face, at the top of the article and taking up a huge portion of the article, is exactly what I feared... a huge ass video, on mandatory auto-play, taking attention away from the important aspects of the actual article at-hand.

You know, when I first left Wikia, I wondered if I had made a hasty mistake, and that my fears were unfounded. But it's just been one damn thing after another, and I'm not wondering any longer.

See for yourself. I wrote a couple of blogs a long time ago, detailing some of their other shady as hell dealings, and this is definitely one that I should add to them, if I ever decide to update them with everything that's been happening since their original writing: A look into present day Wikialogy | Trending Fandom ads 寧靜 04:10, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Why are the videos on autoplay? What if I was using data? They're going to risk costing people money because they think people are too lazy to press play? Yodamort (talk) 05:00, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Yup, complained about this already earlier on, they said they'd do something about it, but as usual, they just don't care. - Greets Peace'n Hugs (talk) (blog) 08:53, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't think this whole forum matters. To me, it's just a waste of time, more or less like a placebo button. In the end, Wikia just does what they believe will make them more moneyz in the short term not caring about consumer or editor satisfaction in any way. We can keep discussing it, and waste more time, but I don't expect anything to change. They know we don't want it, they should know that the videos are shit (especially videos like "our 5 favorite" or "the best blablabla") and they don't care. - Greets Peace'n Hugs (talk) (blog) 09:00, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I think the main purpose of this forum is to make it clear to each other that we're all angered by or dissatisfied with Fandom's attempts to control our wiki. I don't know what Fandom thinks they will get out of this, but I hope they realize it's making a lot of us consider leaving a lot more than ever... We need to find a place to resettle sooner than later. I don't like the idea of moving, but we can't allow ourselves to be completely controlled by the uncaring Fandom forever. NomadMC (talk) 10:03, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I feel that it needs to be pointed out that if we were to consider a move, a split is unfeaseable. The only viable options would be re-unification or full move. I'm not going to advocate anything at present, just pointing this out. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 10:16, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
Yep. We can't have a repeat of what happened at they-who-are-never-to-be-named. Which still isn't feasible right now, of course, as it would require all the admins to be united on leaving, which hasn't happened yet either of course. But if Fandom dares to make this low quality stuff mainstream, trying to voice "our" opinions without our permission (lol?) on even more pages, I think we would just about skip town ASAP. For now, Fandom no longer has any sympathy as far as I can tell, but they haven't done quite enough to make us spend the effort to leave. NomadMC (talk) 12:02, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
What first caught my eye is the very poor quality of the videos. Just this fact alone would easily be enough to have it removed by admins if someone other then Wikia would have added it as a video. Other unprofessional feats are mentioned for the separate pages above. They clearly don't make the grade. When you'd search on YouTube for these characters/items you'd find videos of much better quality, longer and more fun and informative to watch. While I (sort of) appreciate their effort to come up with new ideas, I get the feeling they just don't have the time/manpower to create them professionally. This isn't working and scares visitors off I believe (the size of it made my eyes roll a bit). With all the negativity here I don't believe they'd go through with it. If we were forced to have videos we could consider getting them from YouTube; I don't believe we really have video creators on the wiki, otherwise they would have come forward already. I'm totally against a split. If you don't like it here there's the other place. But having to say this, should be a sign for Wikia. This needs to be discussed with them on short term. Jspoel 14:40, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

Low-quality videos. I don't feel like they added anything to the page. Taking Ballistic Weave for example, why should I or anyone for that matter need to watch a 1 minute and 30-second video about a topic when it is literally the second sentence on the page. The first sentence what it is, second sentence how to get it, takes 15 seconds. scroll down a little and there are values. These videos don't add anything to the pages. I get that they want people to view their content, but it shouldn't go at the very top of the page, let alone auto start. There are 2 good things I see from them, however. One, the videos are muted by default, and two, when you scroll down the page the video get minimized to the side. I think that would be a better alternative to forcing the video at the top of the page, have it on the side which we can click to enlarge if we are interested.Xa3 17:28, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

It is literally the worst thing I have ever seen in my entire life. It's awful. Slap in the face to us. In the words of Clollin, "My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined." --The Courier NCR for life (talk) 18:39, September 6, 2017 (UTC) The Courier NCR for life

Please remove this trash from the wiki. Like J said, if anyone else than wikia would have added it at the top of an article the video would have been removed from the page and deleted in the hour. The videos are low-quality, on autoplay and they prevent the visitors from seeing the really useful information. --YOD ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ 02:09, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
I've searched for the videos used on the 5 pages on YouTube and wonder why the resolution needs to be so poor. The originals there are at least 720p and many of them even 1080p. Why doesn't Wikia use those? It all seems to have been done in a hurry. They seem to have misjudged how much work it take to create a good video. Create it, edit it, script/voice it with preferably good knowledge of the game. Which would seem impossible to me with the number of people Wikia has assigned to it. And the communities aren't very cooperative either helping out. Needs an overhaul somehow. Jspoel 14:30, September 8, 2017 (UTC)

Solutions[]

Okay, so since someone else brought it up, here are our options:

  1. Grin and bear it.
  2. Some sort of unified action, or threat of action, that cannot be ignored by Wikia as it would leave this an orphaned wiki that we are fully prepared to go through with. Examples would be mass resignations or an exodus to another Fallout wiki, or a combination of the two.
  3. Another Split.
  4. Show that we can produce better quality video content that also meets our editorial guidelines, such that Wikia stop making their own and leave it to us.

1 is the default position.

I doubt I'd be welcome at the other place so realistically if we select option 2 I'm on the resign list.

Another split would get us the opportunity of the true freedom that we want. However somebody needs to pay for it... so we are either looking at another wikia like organisation, or paying for it ourselves. Plus, with what wikia spends on advertising we'd quickly be buried.

I think we really need to consider option 4. Let's show we can do this better, and maybe they will let us take it away from them. Agent c (talk) 14:19, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with option 4. Lets either do it better ourselves, or find someone who can do better. Starting ANOTHER Fallout wikia should only be our last option. Skysteam (talk) 01:01, September 7, 2017 (UTC)

In my opinion, the route we should be looking at is 4, 1, 3(combined with 2), and at absolute push we go for 2. I don't want to go for 2 or 3 unless we can ensure discussions are catered for. They are part of our ragtag band, even if they are in a different room most of the time.
I would say between me, Jacki and Hallvard we have the means with the video and audio, all we need is our Morgan Freeman. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 16:59, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
Okay. Prepare a script and footage and lets do a casting call. I'm up for auditioning! Agent c (talk) 18:25, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
1 is pretty much all I think can really be done about it with the way Wikia operates. 2 doesn't really prevent anyone from editing the wiki or adopting it through Wikia. Don't know about 3. And as for 4, how are we going to guarantee that quality videos win out for placement over the crap they have now? Great Mara (talk) 18:42, September 6, 2017 (UTC)
I considered 4, and honestly, if they don't win out, putting them on the official Nukapedia youtube channel and giving users that offering could work in our favour. We still get the quality and potentially, the hits while we grin and bare it. 19:01, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I'd suggest making new videos. If that doesn't work, start removing pages. Save the text on a personal computer or something, so they can be retrieved afterwards, but I think Fandom would notice if a relatively large and active wiki starts disappearing. Start with the pages they added video to. Soviet (talk) 23:46, September 6, 2017 (UTC)

I like your way of thinking. We aren't allowed to remove the videos for afaik (results in a ban and rights removal for "intervening with wikia operations"), but I think that it might still be allowed to remove pages as a whole if we decide that they are no longer feasable. Cutting off some limbs to save the body. Would be painful though to remove the companion and weapons pages; they are the pages that are getting us the most traffic. - Greets Peace'n Hugs (talk) (blog) 08:08, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
Has anyone mentioned that the video wrapper is covering the games template? If anyone from wikia is still reading this, could you at least give us a few pixels of margin on the bottom of the wrapper so our template displays? Please? -  The Gunny   01:29, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
Can that be done using the MediaWiki CSS? Great Mara (talk) 01:59, September 7, 2017 (UTC)
Wikia? Reading this feedback? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0 - Greets Peace'n Hugs (talk) (blog) 08:12, September 7, 2017 (UTC)

What about complaining loud and clear, repeatedly to let the Wikia staff understand that those videos are degrading the quality of the wiki and pushing away visitors who come for a quick a concise information?--YOD ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ 02:20, September 7, 2017 (UTC)

Hasn't worked so far.... Fandom doesn't pay attention to user input, except from newbies, which is really all they care about. But at the very least we have to keep trying, yes. NomadMC (talk) 12:10, September 7, 2017 (UTC)

I have formally asked Wikia, as a Bureaucrat speaking for the community, what they intend to do about the problems with the video, and I have done so on the basis that it has reached their stated failure conditions. Agent c (talk) 16:09, September 7, 2017 (UTC)

I haven't watched any of the videos (it takes an hour for me to watch a 40 second game trailer), but if everybody here says they suck - unanimously, I might add - then I'll take it that they suck. In essence, I'd rather not split from wikia (option 2), and grinning (painfully) and bearing it (option 1) is not acceptable, to me at least. They have something like this on a few of the larger pages over at Elder Scrolls, and every time the page is scrolled down, the video pops up on the side and starts to load and I'm damn tired of it. I'm all for option 4, however: we've made walkthrough videos in the past, and I don't see why we can't do that here. But, if I have a say in any of this, might I give a suggestion? Make the videos optional play, so that if I want to view it, I have to click on the button instead of auto-loading.Leea (talk) 12:37, September 8, 2017 (UTC)

Global Impact[]

I just wanted to make everyone aware that these featured videos, are detested by more than just our community, with other prominent wikis having the same, exact discussions as we are, even threatening to move hosts if something doesn't give.

A good example is over at the Runescape wiki on Wikia. Just some food for thought, for those of you willing to read through their version of our current debacle:

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. 3

寧靜 00:01, September 8, 2017 (UTC)

From FANDOM[]

Hey Fallout community,

Thanks for all the feedback regarding our Featured Video product at FANDOM. First, I want to apologize for including the Nukapedia logo in a couple of the videos - we’re working to have those edited out as we speak and hope to have the videos replaced soon.

Regarding auto-play: Logged in users can disable auto-play for two weeks at a time. On the lower right corner of each video is a gear icon - click that and you'll be able to toggle auto-play off. This selection lasts for two weeks.

I see people have mentioned an interest in participating in the video production process (script or full video creation) and I know it’s been mentioned on Negotiated Settlement. We would love to work with you to either have community members create videos or provide us with scripts that we turn into video. If 1-2 folks would like to collaborate with us to create videos, we'd like to hear from you! Please reach out to me via Special:Contact and we can discuss collaborating on video creation. Again we apologize for including your community logo; that was a mistake by one of our editors. Jen Burton (help forum | blog)

Hi Jen,

I appreciate you reaching out to us directly regarding the issue of video, although we have been reluctant to work with you, I would like to raise a few points from back in May and how they reflect against our standards:

Firstly, the sentiment raised that we were negative in our approach. I agree there were many points on the forum that were negative, the examples provided such as "Top 10" were something we did not want. In the end we were given something here and here, that Brandon himself stated we wouldn't be given, and I quote

Additionally, he stated that any video which did not meet our standard would be considered a failure.

Bear in mind, not all was negative on the subject, many were willing to engage with Fandom as shown by the excerpts below:

“I can think of pages where it would be good, such as location articles where we can make the content fit with the layouts, maybe even extend it to certain weapon and armor mods too. There are certainly good applications to video content, if the community retains control of the content and abides by Wikia's T&Cs by applying it, but enforced application like this is not going to go down well.”— Sakaratte - Talk to the cat 15:29, May 13, 2017 (UTC)
“I'm a bit more open for this upcoming change. Often when Wikia is announcing changes I see considerable opposition in general, but keep in mind they provide us with the means to work on and enjoy the wiki. If they don't keep up with what advertisers want, their financial means reduce and we'll have less resources for it on the wiki. As far as I understand, videos are posted at the top of the page, but only if a video is of good quality and passes a few points of inspection. So it's not like every page will have videos, just a few pages (at first anyway) and they shouldn't be run of the mill. I also wonder if people here will be interested to create them, so most will come from Wikia I presume.”— Jspoel 17:32, May 13, 2017 (UTC)

At this point in time though, we as a community feel like Fandom have failed us, we were given promises that were not met, we then negotiated with you on the matter and were given a lot of statements which included phrases such as "will be considered" and "We can propose", nothing that gave us much in the way of assurances. This was rejected by a strong majority.

Right now, as a community, we are considering our options. We make decisions as a community. As is outlined in our own guidelines we decide our actions on consensus. If anyone wishes to sign up to work with you and they can produce videos with you to meet our standards, then great, but you have to accept that if we decide to make the decision, following our usual protocol's to appoint 1-2 users to speak on our behalf, as our point of contact, they must be the ones Fandom consult in the longterm. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 20:21, September 11, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, Sakaratte. One of the areas where we dropped the ball that has had such a huge impact on this situation is that we changed our plans for community involvement in video and didn't communicate that change to the community. I take responsibility for that. I hope we can work out a good test run with community involved video/script creation here and use it as a model. Jen Burton (help forum | blog)

Update from FANDOM[]

Update from FANDOM,

Hi again, Fallout community. Thanks again for your thoughtful feedback. We’ve been discussing this and, in the spirit of partnership, have decided to temporarily remove the Featured Videos from the wiki until we can work together on a solution. As was mentioned in Agent c’s forum post, Negotiated Settlement, we want to align with the Fallout community to produce informative and relevant video for the wiki. Per Sakaratte on From FANDOM, the Fallout community will be discussing how best to identify community members to participate in this project with us. I look forward to the collaboration and what’s to come.Jen Burton (help forum | blog)

Thank you for the breathing room on the matter, it should help quell some concerns about how much Fandom is willing to work with us. I think for best two way co-operation, it would be best to have any staff who will work with us understand our Policies and guidelines so we are all working from the same rule book re content. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 12:42, September 12, 2017 (UTC)
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