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Forums: Index > Wiki discussion > Chat Emoticons

Hi Folks,

I know there has been a lot of recent unhappiness about a recent cull of emoticons available in chat. Rather than acceed to one of requests to restore popular emoticons, I'd rather get a long overdue discussion completed with some reasonable actions to come out of it.

The questions to me should be

1: What emoticons should be permitted? What should be restored? What should be added, and what rules should they follow? 2: Who should have control over what is and is not added to the list?

Any ideas? Agent c (talk) 15:34, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

I don't really know how this works but what controls how each emote in rendered in chat? IIRC, the shrug emote has dimensions of 30x15px but chat tries to display it so the ratio is off at 19x19px. Great Mara (talk) 15:37, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

We should not have user specific emotes because if anyone gets them, then everyone should get them! Honestly, most of the emotes are there because people got over excited. Most of the ones we have are useless and are only ever used (in the rare situations they ARE used) because they can be. (Books) has no use. (Stop) (hammer) and (time) are only used when people feel like playing mod, the only people who should be telling people that it is hammer time are those with additional rights and they certainly should not be doing so though emotes.

Let's be honest; what use are (argh), (ba)/(kc) -which is a user specific one anyway-, (books), (bos) -looks like rubbish- (cap), (chip), (content) -serious, who the hell uses an emote to say content?-, (indie)/(v21)/(21) -it looks like rubbish anyway-, (inquisition)/(inq) -not even sure what it is and it's user specific anyway-, (laser), (nuke)/(mush), (pirate) -why do we have two pirate emotes?- (pulp), (securitron), (tank) -user specific anyway-, (vaultboy), (vb), (vbcool), (vbtw), (zax)/(js) -user specific-, (vanb)/(vanburen), (PS3), (xbox)/(360) and (nukapedia)/(nuka)?
Most of these are unused for the most part. Yeah, having them doesn't hurt but it doesn't help either and if having emotes that don't hurt is okay then does that mean I can add whatever emotes I want on grounds of "it doesn't hurt?"

Emotes are basically meant to show emotions which nearly all our emotes don't do. Most of the emotes we have are only emotes because they can be, which is not a valid reason.

Oh, and like Mara says the shug is crushed and looks like rubbish. If an emote doesn't look visually nice (like shrug or BoS) we should ditch them too.

Edit: I missed a few off my list, such as the (stop), (hammer) and (time) I previously mentioned, but I already made my argument for those. (db) should also be ditched for those reasons.JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 15:51, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Why should we care how many emotes we have for chat? As long as we have the proper guidelines and emote request forum in place, I don't see what the big deal is with having as many emotes as our community wants, should they follow our guidelines/policies.

  • Every emote needs to be of good quality. Fuzzy or disproportionate, of course, are not allowed.
  • If an emote is at first approved, but a group of chat-goers do not like its use or intent (a reason needs to be presented, of course), then it'll be removed without question. Simple as.
  • Emotes follow the same rules as our spam guidelines. Use them with moderation. If a user abuses the same emotes that they requested to have added in - remove them.
  • Duplicate emotes, are naturally, not allowed. If an emote is requested that resembles or fulfills the same purpose as an already existing emote, the one of highest quality will be chosen to remain.
  • Emotes need general approval before they can be added in. An Admin or Bureaucrat can't just got in and start adding a ton of new emotes, nor are they allowed to unilaterally make the decision to add in a requested emote. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 16:16, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Leon on this. There really is no reason to remove any of the emotes except the ones that Leon mentioned above. Also, the reason most of these emotes are rarely used is that nobody remembers that they exist and most people (including myself) don't even know how to find out what emotes are available. If we had a link in chat to an emote list I'm sure many of the emotes would be used more often for their designed purpose. I also feel that as THE Fallout Wiki Chat, we should keep and/or acquire better quality Fallout related emotes. Emotes like '(NCR)', '(BOS)', and '(Enclave)' get used semi-frequently already (especially if their is a fallout discussion) and would probably get a lot of use if we linked a list like I mentioned above. OnionRings (talk) 16:46, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Because speaking in images is super natural.

emoticon. noun. a representation of a facial expression such as a smile or frown, formed by various combinations of keyboard characters and used in electronic communications to convey the writer’s feelings or intended tone— Oxford English Dictionary
If they do not convey emotions, then they are not emoticons. Further more "if an emote is at first approved" isn't going to work for those that are already approved. Yes it doesn't matter how many emotes we have, but equally it doesn't matter if we got rid of 90% of them. "Also, the reason most of these emotes are rarely used is that nobody remembers that they exist and most people (including myself) don't even know how to find out what emotes are available". The reason most of these emotes are not used is because they don't need to be, when the hell does the conversation call for a smiley face dressed as a pirate? It comes to a point when people would be using the emotes just because they can.

Also, pro-tip; if you find it hard to know what emotes there are, try searching the wiki for "emoticon". JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 16:56, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

For anyone struggling to find the emotes here they are JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 17:16, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Whether or not our Emote convey emotion or not is rather an arbitrary reason to get rid of them.

e•mo•ti•con (ɪˈmoʊ tɪˌkɒn)


Computers. an abbreviation or icon used on a network, as IMHO for “in my humble opinion” or:-), a sideways representation of a smiling face, to indicate amusement.

noun \i-ˈmō-ti-ˌkän\ Definition of EMOTICON

a group of keyboard characters (as :-)) that typically represents a facial expression or suggests an attitude or emotion and that is used especially in computerized communications (as e-mail)— Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Sure, they started out as smiley faces but things on the internet evolve to fit the needs and wants of the user and they still hold a place in chat. Arguing about the exact wording of a definition, especially a definition that clearly needs to be updated with the times, doesn't change the fact that emotes are features that were added to help make the chat fun and unique. Whether they are "Typically" used to convey emotion doesn't mean they have to. You may not like them but It's pretty clear by the complaints (User and moderators alike) that many of the chat users want them still. "The reason most of these emotes are not used is because they don't need to be, when the hell does the conversation call for a smiley face dressed as a pirate? It comes to a point when people would be using the emotes just because they can." And what exactly is the problem with that? As long as the emote is relevant to the conversation, I fail to see a problem with someone saying "I love (NCR)" over "I love the NCR", as it is a matter of personal preference.

As for the link you posted, most of the users don't even know about this discussion yet and the point I was making is that we should link it on the main chat so that new users can use them too, not just "regular" users. I seriously doubt posting the link here would help any "Anon" or "new user" learn about what keystrokes provide an emote in chat. OnionRings (talk) 17:47, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Emoticons are just a bit of fun, that anyone can take advantage of should they choose too. It's not a forced feature or anything, and should there be a disruptive emoticon, then it's as simple as pointing it out and having it removed. Emoticons are not something to get technical/literal about. Especially since modern emoticons transcend that archaic meaning just presented. If they are used in moderation, and they are of good quality, then there is no issue with them at all, unless someone is specifically looking to find issue with them in general.

  • "Yes it doesn't matter how many emotes we have, but equally it doesn't matter if we got rid of 90% of them."
    • That doesn't make any sense... the former is allowing people to convey themselves more in chat. The latter is possibly depriving chat-goers of a bit of fun on their part. So I don't see how "equally not mattering" can be applied to such a claim.
ForGaroux Some Assembly Required!  17:52, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, because a picture of the NCR flag or a Sammy L Jackson's face are sssoooo' useful at "conveying yourself in chat". I dunno about you, but I never woke up one morning feeling really Samuel L Jackson. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 17:54, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
Emoticons aren't meant to be useful. Nor am I claiming certain emotes to be superior/inferior to other emotes. I won't go there, because that's subjective and irrelevant. Personally, I don't like emotes, and I never use them. But my personal disliking for them is not blinding me to the fact that other people do enjoy using emotes. They cause no harm, as long as they're not used to spam the chat. So why should we deprive our community of them? ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 17:59, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
I think we need to take under consideration that not everyone has a distaste for emotes like you do, Jasper. I feel that the emotes are good as they are for now. If people want to request one, take it to an admin and leave it like that. If you don't like emotes, don't use them, If you find emotes annoying, ask politely for them to stop or message a Moderator.--User ncr A Safe People is a Strong People! 18:15, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
Essentially everything NCR said. Except, I wouldn't go as far as chat-goers politely asking people to stop using them while they're in chat. Some of our chat regulars are in chat pretty much all day, every day. So I'd leave it at not using emotes to spam chat. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 18:19, September 10, 2013 (UTC)
NCR, you also have to remember that this is an open forum where I can share my opinion, yes I do not like emotes and yes not everyone agrees but does that mean I should be keeping quite? This is an open forum for us all to share our feelings on the matter and that is all I was doing. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 22:17, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure why random definitions of emoticons are being written out as they have no significance... Emoticons are for fun and perhaps slight convenience. Administrators should not arbitrarily add emoticons as they seem fit, but only upon request by a large number of chat-goers. Emoticons that were not added under such a circumstance or another logical reason (i.e. they serve a specific function/as a specific convenience) I can consider to delete if a message is left on my TP requesting such an action. --Skire (talk) 01:11, September 15, 2013 (UTC)

My proposal is to vote on each emote to decide on which of the current ones stand. Yes means it stays, no means it should be deleted, neutral means it should stay but in a modified way (different icon, resolution, etc). If you couldn't care less about a particular emote then don't vote at all. Then we decide how new ones should be added and proposed. Either leaving it to the discretion of admins, or having regular polls for new proposals. Said polls could be either at regular time periods (every X months) or after a certain threshold of proposals are made (after X icons are proposed). In case admin discretion is chosen, we could also enact guidelines, such as the apparently popular "no personal emotes".
Limmiegirl Lildeneb Talk! ♪ 01:54, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Waaaay too tedious for the second option. I would hope the community trusts in their leadership enough to deal with each emote as they come, instead of forcing everyone through mass votes every time we want to add in a new one. And I still see no problem with personal emotes, as long as they're not spammed or violate guidelines/policies. ForGaroux Some Assembly Required! 02:02, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
I think so as well, I'd much prefer the admin discretion.
Limmiegirl Lildeneb Talk! ♪ 23:11, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with Skire. Sure, emoticons are fun, but we really shouldn't need to add personal ones, unless a couple of users get together and feel there should be one. We're overstepping the community aspect if we just start adding things whenever we like. For example, Jasper, Bears, and Leon have an idea for an awesome emote, we go and ask an admin if it can be implemented. S'long as it's in good faith, we can implement it. I think it would be, as Leon said, much too tedious to have regular polls concerning them. --TwoBearsHigh-Fiving Intercom01 02:25, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

We don't really need user specific emotes, but I'm sure there are plenty to add that would be cool. Take the Dragon Age wiki for example, on top of the basic wiki emotes there's even emotes BASED ON THE GAME. Some are just already existing emotes with a Dragon Age coat of paint (for example, the troll emoticon is a trollface version of Varric) while others are based on the game yet useful for everyday conversations (such as a dour looking face of Sten for "no" or a freaked out face of Zevran for "dafuq"). If you guys want to add more emotes, I suggest taking a bit of inspiration from them for new ones here. Aleksandr the Great (talk) 02:33, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

@Limmiegirl I can see the potential value in having such a poll, but it should be a strictly one-time thing (or at least only once in awhile). There would have to be an overflow of chat emoticons and many whose existence come under question... It would be a nice, definitive way to sort things and from then on better organisation can keep the emoticons in check. --Skire (talk) 02:35, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Limmiegirl Lildeneb Talk! ♪ 23:11, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I just want (Enclave), (Laser), (USA), and (Troll) very very much so. The rest I leave to you guys' discretion. Enclavesymbol 02:47, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, there is gonna be some emotes that people want to keep and some that want them gone, obviously. I think Limmie has an interesting idea as the community can decide what they want and what they don't. The thing is, it seems a bit tedious as there are so many emotes and I doubt we'll make a page for each voting poll unless we squeeze it all on one page. It's not that big of a concern, but just giving thoughts. --THE NUCLEAR KING Talk 03:31, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I don't see an issue with keeping the emoticons as-is. There are already safeguards in place to prevent misuse in chat, unless of course the sheer amount is hindering performance of the feature, in which case they should be limited to the most popular. Anything else is just a form of unnecessary censorship in my opinion. FollowersApocalypseLogoōrdō āb chao 22:21, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Proposed groupingsEdit

I've made a preliminary sorting of the emotes under more manageable classes that I think can be voted on instead of specific emotes. This is still a WIP, the misc section for instance should be dismembered into another two or three classes still. Please give me your opinions on the current sorting and feel free to suggest more precise groupings as well.
Limmiegirl Lildeneb Talk! ♪ 23:11, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

It looks good. We shouldn't subdivide into too many classes, but just enough to maintain some organisation. --Skire (talk) 19:09, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
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