Forum:Catmin Request - Saka

Forums: Index > Wiki proposals and applications > Catmin Request - Saka

So, there may have been suspicions about this occuring, but I have now made up my mind. I am requesting a reinstatement of some form, based on the opinion of the community.

So why did I quit in the first place

I'm going to keep it simple, that was a personal matter and will remain that way. I'd prefer to keep my personal life separate from here.

That said, quitting was a last resort, which I wasn't happy about.

So why the request?

It became apparent very early after resignation that the wiki still struggles for technical support, two bears isn't about often, Jacki resigned and from what I can tell, the other admins/moderators don't have much in the way of technical knowledge (Aya being the exception).

At present:

• The filters are unmaintained and dated.
• templates are dated and need work. I've been working on some updating/optimisation, however, with out CSS access this is difficult to do.
• You don't have a Lua specialist.
• Coverage on discussions is stretched.
• I still hold CheckUser, which is limited by the lack of additional access. Furthermore, Richie has had trouble getting this moved over.

Things to make clear

• I won't be returning to Discord, it has not been the place for me for a long ass time.
• What I do outside of Nukapedia (specifically Exodus as some like to call it) has nothing to do with this, nor do I want it to be. I have my obligations in relation to that already and have no intentions of seeking to expand those. Furthermore I am going back to university, so I don't have the time to monitor it if any extensions are made.

Edits

Although I wouldn't have held the positions in the past without reaching the edit prerequisites, they are below:

There should have been a list of this user's edit counts here, but the edit counts feature is no longer available.

Vote

Poll finished on 2:31 pm October 14, 2018 (UTC).

• A consensus must be reached by voting before any action is taken.
• You can vote by placing the following line in the appropriate section of the option you support:
  • # {{yes}} ~~~~
  • # {{no}} ~~~~
• Please do not edit other user's votes.

Full reinstatement

(Votes for Bureaucrat/Admin combo)

1. Of course. |\| () |\/| /\ |) | Talk | Discord | NMC 14:45, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
2. (/^▽^)/ - FDekker ^talk
3. Pedro Washington (talk) 14:58, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
4. Need at least one useful bureaucrat beside Jspoelstra. --NukaTurtle (talk) 15:19, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
5. Saka! AllYourFavorites (talk) 16:27, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
6.  :) Jgrsoto (talk)
7. Dragão Carmesim
8. Jinau (talk) 21:01, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
9. Aya42 (talk) 00:07, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
10. Clollin The Courier (talk) 04:37, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
11. After some thinking, I’ve decided to change my vote from Partial to Full reinstatement. I can see the addition of a Bureaucat helping to remedy some of the problems we’ve been having here. Skysteam (talk) 17:45, October 13, 2018 (UTC)
12. I see no reason why not. Zealous Champion (talk) 05:30, October 14, 2018 (UTC)

Partial reinstatement

(Votes for Admin)

1. As discussed with you privately... I don’t think you want to be crat, I don’t think you want the implied need to be involved with everything. I think what you want - and need - is the admin toolkit. Agent c (talk) 20:10, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
2. If Admin is what you're looking for then it's what you should get. Although the majority seems to want you to return as a bureaucrat. Rebel427 ~ I'll be your huckleberry 21:19, October 7, 2018 (UTC)
3. The Wandering Dragonborn (talk)
4. UrbanAnge1 (talk) 00:26, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
5. I think you definitely want Admin, and not bureaucrat at this point. I'd vote for you as BC in a heartbeat, but given you stepped down the last time you were in that position, I think it would, at the very least, be a good idea to start back in Admin. ---bleep196- (talk) 01:51, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
6. i think its in anyone's best interest to not bother you with the crat role pressures, honestly if you just wanna edit admin is a more suited role.--Obamacat.ind (talk) 02:01, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
7. The discussions board is indeed short on moderators, and you have the capability of being good wiki-side.Laat the Survivor (talk) 11:59, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
8. This should have been an admin request and nothing more. You need the tools to do techincal stuff and we need someone to take care of it. I am under the impression that a large part of you leaving was due to the stress that comes with being bureaucrat. Don't let that happen again. Do what you enjoy, that is all I ask right now. -DisgustingWastelander (talk) 12:20, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
9. --Ulysses the G (talk) 18:12, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
10. I don't think you should force yourself into the position of Bureaucrat again, so soon after resigning. Admin rights should suffice as they grant the full special toolbox for editing and wikiside stuff, which seems to be what you want to be able to do at the moment.123123abcabc (talk)

No reinstatement

1. lol Quarterman812 (talk) 00:52, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
2. Absolutely not. Does not have the temperament. Can't even say why he left before in this request, even though he made it clear in chat before. Attempted to split the wiki yet again. I see no reason why editing requires admin tools - they are a right given on a needed basis, not a toy. - Chris 01:36, October 8, 2018 (UTC
3. after reading over my old vote and letting it go over in my head, I am against saka getting anything. The quitting and coming back seems like a snake maneuver to just slither back into a major position in the wiki again once the dislike for hinm has died down. I still have my doubts about giving him any rights given that it would be right back at square one with his want to push shit and/or scavenge shit from here to put in the passion project. In short: I see no need to reaccept someone who wants to split the already divided community. silentWraith_291 {♤Niner Ace of Spades♤} (talk) 02:06, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
4. ^寧靜 23:51, October 8, 2018 (UTC)
5. Because of conflicting interest among users. Also, You could have just went inactive if your life was too much at the time and retained the rights until you wanted to come back (like so many others). But hindsight is 20/20. That's why no one will remember your name... 01:13, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

Excluded Votes

1. Seems you want admin anyways, and I am fine with you being admin. If you want to return as a mere editor, I think that the bureaucrat toolset isn't really needed - and may cause you more stress and responsibilities than you want to take on. Plus, we never found out a cat name for bureaucrat - but we did find one for admin - catmin, so all around pros silentWraith_291 {♤Niner Ace of Spades♤} (talk) 00:08, October 8, 2018 (UTC) — User changed vote
2. I agree completely with what’s been said already. If you want the toolbox, this position would be great. Don’t overburden yourself with Bureaucat-status again. Skysteam (talk) 12:25, October 13, 2018 (UTC) – User changed vote

Comments

As much as I'd like to see you return, I'm not sure what this vote is exactly. Is this just a poll or is this an actual rights request? For example, if the majority votes for full reinstatement, does that mean you will be a crat next week or will you require another vote for that?
- FDekker ^talk 14:49, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

Consider this a full vote. I'd rather be where the community feels I should be than go "right I want to go for this" and for it not to be the right place. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 14:51, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

If full reinstatement is you becoming a crat, what is partial reinstatement exactly? Admin?
- FDekker ^talk 14:52, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it would be admin. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 14:53, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

You're too wishy washy. You consistently leave and rejoin the chat room to the point where it's an inside joke among the server regulars and even the newer folks.

You left not long after Exodus failed and the Nuka split 2.0 failed, and already you are back trying to get your rights back, not sufficiently explaining why this had to be necessary in the first place.

Maybe in the future, this will change. But right now, you ain't exactly looking reliable, you're looking like emotions control your activity here, which is counterintuitive when you're wanting to hold a technical position.

I don't vote out of fear. I did the same thing with Theo's vote, who emotionally left this will multiple times, abandoning his promises and responsibilities, when, hell, he wasn't even an admin yet.

As tedious as it is, you can gain temporary control of pages you want access to. But outside of that, I can't say I trust that you won't leave the wiki hanging. Again.

I have other reasons for voting no, too, but they are fairly minor in comparison, and if it were just for those more minor respond, I'd at least vote for you to retain admin rights. 2607:FB90:7CE2:807D:C93E:3C17:9DB4:E68F 01:49, October 8, 2018 (UTC) - GarouxBloodline

Please note the preceeeding message is from a user who is in the leadership team in a competing wiki, and thus may have a direct conflict of interest in their position. Agent c (talk) 19:03, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Oh, cool, here comes the undertone censorship. I gave a voting rationale. It will stand on its own merits, whether it hurts your ego or not. 2607:FB90:7CE0:B9FE:3445:BC53:5121:6465 19:10, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Not about censorship. More about completing the record. As you identify as someone who is in the leadership team at our competition, you do have an interest in ensuring certain skills are denied to this wiki. What you choose to do about your conflict of interest is up to you, but if you don't put it on the record, each time you participate in a decision here I'll be doing it for you. Agent c (talk) 19:19, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Funny what double-standards are employed around here, regarding the good faith rules. Do what you want to do. I always provide rationales. Theyre there for consideration - I am but one user in the end 2607:FB90:7CE0:B9FE:3445:BC53:5121:6465 19:43, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

I feel some corrections need to be made here.

• "You consistently leave and rejoin the chat room" - Last time I entered chat, I needed an aim, the time before was because gunny quit and the time before I was looking into something for a bureaucrat. Each time I entered with the intention of leaving once I had done what I had intended to do.
• "You left not long after Exodus failed and the Nuka split 2.0 failed" - If you check the timestamps of my resignation and and when the poll went up, you'll see I actually called quits before the vote; it wasn't because anything had failed. As I said, my reasons are personal and not to do with here.

I'm not going to say anything else on the rest of your statement, after all it is your vote, your views and your opinions and I respect that. Those two points had a different perspective to them and such, it needed putting out there. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 09:36, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

That's sort of my point, though - it's hard to tell with you. There's no telling if you'll leave again, and there are precedents for that, this latest precedent being one that you e backtracked on fairly quickly.

On top of that, you say you have mounting real-life pressures, while also having your divinity hobby included onto everything else.

Looking at all that, I'm not seeing any sort of clear and defined dedication that'd be needed for a crat position. Maybe admin, but I'd only be able to vote for that after seeing more from you after having resigned such a short time ago. 2607:FB90:7CE0:B9FE:F9FA:8505:B315:32E8 15:13, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Last I checked Leon, no one here, regardless of their position, is required to give explanations for their personal reasons for doing something. If they wish to give reasons, that's up to them, and many of us do. But it's not mandated, even if you are applying for crat. Anyone is free to come and go here, and if they request their permissions back too, they'll not need to explain what caused them to leave. This has happened before with others, I believe.... |\| () |\/| /\ |) | Talk | Discord | NMC 16:45, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

The last time I checked, Saka is a grown adult who can speak for himself. Yeah; he doesn't have to explain himself, just like I don't have to have faith in a decision to leave for such and such reasons, before almost immediately redacting such a decision. Bureaucrats have to be reliable. 2607:FB90:7CE0:B9FE:F9FA:8505:B315:32E8 17:19, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

You're right, I am a grown adult and that is why the only public notice of retirement I gave was this one. I sought everyway possible to avoid a resignation, as it was only going to be a passing short term phase and resignation came after all other options. My reasons for resignation were health related and that is as far as I am willing to disclose. May have also noticed that some of the partial re-instatement votes come from those I consider good/close friends and their rationale is in part at least to do with my wellbeing. Votes of that form have a special form of respect from me.

Furthermore, your view that you see the potential for me to be admin, yet are hesitant to vote for it because of my recent resignation I can also appreciate. Yes, it was 3 months ago, that is a short while, yet a lot can change within a person in that time too. I probably wouldn't be here if J hadn't asked me to look at the {{Navbox}}, I wouldn't have started working with Lua and updating other templates alongside this, such as SPECIAL template, to optimise it's parser speed and allow more flexibility and applications. I cannot demonstrate the amount of work I put into it beforehand as I built and tested it with a localhost, Vanilla MediaWiki site. All in all I can tell you it took me 2 days to build and refine and less than 24 hours to test, check and impliment in the live environment. It still isn't fully implimented as access to CSS is required for some implimentation methods. Further to that, I also sought to simplify the bug template when bleep was preparing to do a run with the bugs and even looked at semantic applications to assist him with tracking. Although I may not have a daily, visible presence I am always about, and actually make considerations on what happens.

As for leaving, I said I resigned, not quit and J can confirm that I also said, in private that if any assistance was wanted I would happily give it. You'll also see from my contributions,my edits did dip, not just in volume, but in frequency until he got in touch to ask about the navbox. From there you see an uptick, I saw things to do that 1, interested me and 2, I felt could help the community.

As for personal pressures, I'd hardly say they're mounting. If anything, being here supplements them by keeping skills related to my course fresh. Like I said, I'm going to university, the reason for that is to get a degree in skills I already have and use around this place. As for the Divinity hobby as you put it, that was there long before I became admin here the first time, it didn't impede me then and it won't impede now. Besides, don't we all have other hobbies outside of here? Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 20:36, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Hmm. I'll put more thought into it. The main concern, is if you're just going to leave again. And with the admin tools, you have the potential to touch and work with pages, starting personal projects that only you may or may not be able to finish.

Is that a concern worth having? You seem to be candid enough right now. So just say it flat to me. I'm sure you've seen how much I can respect that approach.

As for the rest, maybe you should define which position you exactly want. Because if you'd be more confident bumping down to admin, then be honest about that, and get rid of the crat vote. If admin ain't what you're seeking, get rid of the admin vote. 2607:FB90:7CE0:B9FE:3445:BC53:5121:6465 20:54, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

(←) 

As far as leaving goes, as long as my right to take a break now and again (as everyone needs from time to time) is respected, I don't anticipate a departure. That is the crux of why I had to retire and the individuals I needed to speak to have been spoken to. I felt much in a position where I had to force a break, rather than be allowed one. Could that have been done in other ways? Maybe, but they're weren't visible to me at the time. I won't say it was an issue explicit to here, as this wasn't the only place I bailed out of.

Should a reoccurance be a concern? Not much more than anyone else. We all have events in life that need us to take a step back from the things we do in other places for a while, that doesn't mean we have forgotten our obligations, it means we have other priorities in life for the time being. A wiki, where ever it is, whoever is in charge will almost certainly be a secondary priority to real life. With that said, I'm not going to say, "no I will never be leaving again" as I don't think anyone can say that with absolute sincerity. What I will say is I have no intention of flinging the tools away to make an abrupt return in a few months time, however people need to remember that real life takes first precedence and they need to accept that if I need to get away for a while, to respect that.

As for personal projects and things that only I can do, I'm the sort of person who likes to see something from beginning to end. I won't impliment something that is unfinished unless I know that someone else will be able to pick it up and run with it. Technical minded people are hard to come by and with any project like this there is always the risk they will leave. For example, Porter made a lot of stuff, templates, JavaScript etc. that people to this day still can't wrap their heads around, they have to take it apart and work it out, or just start again. I like commented code, that way someone has a head start on something. If I'm making a major change to a template, I write it in a way that someone can slot in the pieces where they need it. If you look at the module I linked above, you'll see there is quite a bit of information on what does what in the code. If someone wants to learn how to code in lua, or do a bit of JavaScript, I'm more than willing to teach. A skill monopoly has been the curse of Nukapedia for a long time and people (particularly admins) need to step up and at least try to get to grips with some of the basic fundamentals of these areas. I wish not to be a miracle cure or a poison pill due to what I can do.

As for defining what I want, if I didn't feel able to handle a role, I would offer it up as an option. What I am aware of is that my departure is going to leave some doubts in the minds of individuals and past events have left some with doubts of my abilities to lead. There are also those who still faith in me as has been shown by the way voting has gone. If the community feels admin is the right place for me, I can still do 99% of what I want to do, while building up the trust I need to go further, if I am needed. If they feel I should lead again, I know in myself I am up to doing that.

That might not be the most straight forward answer, but I feel giving you the long transparent truth is better than saying something short, sweet and possibly not 100% true. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 01:32, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

I'll mull it over. Real-life takes the priority seat - my personal opinion is that you should just go inactive. I was forced to enforce it back in the day, but I never agreed with the inactive users should resign stigma that persists even today. ^寧靜 02:47, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

I agree, I should have and was very much a large part of why I kept leaving discord, the only reason I returned was because I was needed or someone plead for me to return. Although it may be a joke to many, it was a very serious event for me. Sakaratte - Talk to the catmin 03:17, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

I agree here with FDekker. As much as I like you, Saka, this is not the way to do it in my opinion. Either you do a real vote (with the specific job you want, and with the classic title structure) or you do a consultative forum just to get opinions, but a forum with a "kinda" vote that would then also have consequences is a no-go for me and shouldn't be enforced as I think it would be a bad precedent for future rights requests. Anyway, happy to see you back. - ^Greets Peace'n Hugs (talk) (blog) 09:18, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

“or scavenge shit from here to put in the passion project.”— Silent

I think I need to educate you here silent. There is absolutely nothing that can be “scavenged” as as a special rights user that cannot simply be copied as a regular user. The whole damn point of a wiki is that every single little thing is available for anyone to reuse if they follow the CC license... If you don’t like that then a wiki is not for you.

And just on Chris' point. Mediawiki Pages, CSS pages, and the pages controlling the filters cannot be edited (but can be viewed) by non-admins. Saka is being granted access on an as-needed basis, but strictly speaking, there's no rule/procedure for temp admin (although he's not the first to be tempted), and I believe several admins are getting a little tired of doing it. Agent c (talk) 11:47, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Who is: 2607:FB90:7CE0:B9FE:F9FA:8505:B315:32E8? If it is Leon, can you sign as him please? Jspoel 17:21, October 8, 2018 (UTC)

Result

Howdy folks, how's tricks? Jspoel and I have talked it over and we've decided to do a partial reinstatement to Administrator for Saka. The community seemed rather divided over the issue, and both of us felt that Admin would be a better starting off point. Congratulations on Admin, Saka. Richie9999 (talk) 18:29, October 14, 2018 (UTC)