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Hello, fellow Nukapedians, and welcome to my forum!

Today, what I would like to discuss with this wiki, is a rather large competition that will be released fairly soon (on the 10th of this month after GamesCom 2015). We are hoping to get Nukapedia directly involved; however, because of a few details, it has been decided that a discussion should be had.

Since these primary details need to be discussed, I have decided to make this a full-blown forum for the competition, as there are a few other topics that should be gone over, as well. These topics include, but are not necessarily limited to:

  1. Legal rules
  2. Nukapedian judge
  3. Entry format
  4. Sponsor
  5. General information
  6. What makes this competition so S.P.E.C.I.A.L.?


General Information

To help make this forum more concise, all of the specific details regarding this competition can be found here. It is important to read this sandbox in advance, as certain subject matters being discussed in this forum, will require having a bit of existing knowledge that I will not be directly covering on this particular forum.



Sponsor

I am not going to beat around the bush, as this is the topic that warranted this forum's creation in the first place. While I started this competition as an independent Strategic Nuclear Moose (SNM) project, Curse jumped on the chance to personally host it, which means that this competition will technically be a Curse competition. This has raised a few very legitimate concerns, as to whether or not this competition will be advertising Wikia's competition.

I fully understand this concern, and I want to work with Nukapedia on this concern. However, external events such as this one will be, have been considered as note-worthy news on Nukapedia before in well established precedents, and so I am here to convince this wiki's community as to why Nukapedia should act as a co-host, and what we will do from our end to make this a collaborative and fair experience for everyone involved:

1) There will be no discrimination:

A) Judges have been chosen from each of the most involved communities, to ensure an even playing field.
B) All prizes are the same, regardless of which community one comes from.
C) We will be hosting mini-challenges for our International competitors, for the chance to earn digital prizes since they cannot compete for our physical prizes. These mini-challenges will extend to Nukapedia, as well.
D) All competitors have the chance to showcase their communities by adding the name of their community onto their entry's header. So when we add each entry to our public directory, across each of the communities involved, all of our competitors will be recognized as to where they came from.

2) We will not blatantly advertise.

A) It will be mentioned that this is a joint Curse & SNM competition, but these will only be a passing mention in a single line of text. A single logo will also be given on the very bottom of the competition blog - we feel that this bare minimum advertisement is justified because of the effort and money we put into the competition. We will be going through pains to make sure that none of this is distracting from the actual point of the competition.

It should also be mentioned that we will be using a Gamepedia E-Mail for sending entries in through. Normally, I would have avoided this, however, since we will be doing critiques and interviews, it will be necessary that we have each of the competitors' E-Mails available. We are also legally obligated to have an E-Mail that is easily traced back to the host.

B) Unlike other involved communities, in which their competitors have to put forth their entries directly onto The Vault, Nukapedia can put forth their entries on... Nukapedia! This means that users will not have to travel to The Vault in order to compete. We feel that this is a fair and unique compromise for Nukapedia's sole benefit.

3) We will be advertising Nukapedia!

A) When the 10-20 finalists are chosen in October for the final stretch of the competition, the judges will begin critiquing each of the entries. These entries will be showcased across each of the communities involved. So if Nukapedia manages to get in a bunch of finalists, then that means we will be advertising quite a few of its members!
B) Similar to the critiques, we will be running interviews on the 6 winners. As before, these interviews will be showcased across each of our involved communities.


Legal Rules

The second largest concern, is making sure that this competition has been legitimatized. We have dedicated our time into making sure that we can deliver everything we promise, to the point where we have legally bound ourselves to fulfilling all that in which we have promised.

The legal jargon is a bit hard to read, but the details can be found here. Should Nukapedia join us as a co-host, we will be running a slightly re-written copy, so that we can get a Nukapedia standard ready for the competition.



Nukapedian Judge

To help show that we want to collaborate with Nukapedia to the fullest extent possible, I will be going ahead and using this forum as a chance to ask for a Nukapedian judge, to fill in our #5, and final judge slot! If the competition is ultimately denied, the community pick can still be used - we are still looking for a tie-breaker judge, so Nukapedians are absolutely free to join us.

We will have a section of this forum dedicated specifically for a community-pick! Self-nominations will be allowed, so long as they are seconded by another member of Nukapedia.



Entry Format

I will make this short, but I still want to go ahead and clarify how entries will need to be sent in. The necessary guidelines can be found in the link within the opening paragraphs of this forum, for further relevant information:

  1. An entry can be created through either a user: sandbox, blog, or forum.
  2. Once an entry has been created using one of these mediums, the entry needs to be linked to on the competition's blog (not this forum).
  3. We will skim over an entry to make sure that it is professional enough for consideration. Stuff like all-caps will disqualify an entry. A good example as to what we are looking for, can be found here.
  4. Once an entry has been accepted, we will ask some basic questions. If the information is not already found on an entry, we will be asking for: where one lives (to make sure that you eligible), a nickname that we can identify one with concerning the E-Mail step after this step (we will not ask for your actual name, but a real-name can still be given), and which community one hails from (mostly redundant on Nukapedia).
  5. Once this process has been finished, the competitor simply needs to send in their entry to FalloutTheories@Gamepedia.com! Technically, entries can go ahead and be sent in before being accepted; however, by using step 4, we will easily be able to pick out which entries have actually been accepted or not.


What makes this competition S.P.E.C.I.A.L.?

Hoo... where do I start?

Prizes:

We are offering a ton of high-quality prizes! Stuff that one cannot even get anymore outside of high-priced secondary sources, as of the time this competition is released.

  1. Fallout 4 -or- its eventual Game of the Year (GotY) edition
  2. The Fallout: Anthology collection
  3. The Fallout 4 Collector's Edition Prima Survival Guide
  4. The Fallout 4 Prima Survival Guide
  5. A Fallout vinyl of one's choosing
  6. Either a Vault Boy plush, or a Fallout bobblehead of one's choosing

Exposure:

  1. The Fallout sub-Reddits
  2. The Nerd Lair
  3. Fallout: Keepers of the Lore
  4. Fallout Fanatics
  5. The Vault
  6. Curse
  7. No Mutants Allowed
  8. The Escapist
  9. ShoddyCast

This is not to mention, that we currently have some insiders at GamesCom 2015 hyping the competition even further, with Curse running a Fallout Hype Week segment to garner additional attention.


F.U.N.:

This competition is promising to be huge. And with that, the competition itself has a vague criteria, that means Fallout fans can write about anything they want! Want to write a theory on how there is a vault on the moon? Go for it! Want to create a theory on how ghouls date? Why the hell not! Your theories can be zany, serious, or so outlandish as to boggle the mind - the only limitation is one's own imagination!

As well as the main competition, we feel for the International competitors that are not eligible for our offered physical prizes. As the competition progresses, at the end of each of the 3 months that we will be running, there will be a mini-competition, specifically tailored for our International users, in which I will be offering digital prizes. Some restrictions may still be present, but unlike the physical prizes, digital prizes can easily be exchanged for something different to help accommodate for such situations.

These mini-challenges will be revealed at the end of each month. However, as a teaser, the first challenge will involve... drawing. ;)

Support

This is not a vote! These sections are simply to gain a community consensus

  1. Naturally, I support bringing the competition here. I think it will be a ton of fun, and I have done my best to offer collaboration between each of our communities. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 03:08, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
  2. I also support having Nukapedia participate in the competition. It could act as a last "hurrah!" before Fallout 4 comes out and we're forced to "hate" each other again in the way that Pepsi hates Coke. Good spirited competition, just gamers throwing head canon around and having fun. This is a fun idea! --Kastera (talk) 17:04, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  3. As this contest is the offspring of me and Leon (with several other godparents), I support this idea! And just to clarify: Everyone is invited to participate, with no prejudice towards your community affiliation - or whether your community participates at all. :) Tagaziel (talk) 18:06, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  4. What can I say? I think it would be a great activity for the wiki to be a part of! "Space. The final frontier." ~The-Artist-64 (talk) 19:41, August 6, 2015 (UTC)The-Artist-64
  5. Sounds great to me. I don't think I got to vote on the forum Chad mentions below but I don't see any reason not to have a fun community activity like this. - Chris 4 Star Dragon Ball Edit 19:55, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  6. this seems like a great thing to have, a healthy competition from time to time doesnt hurt. I bet some of us have some great theories and want our voices to be heard about it. You can definitely count me in. --I really need to get a signature (talk) 20:05, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  7. I joined Nukapedia right after the Split. To me, there was never a Vault community that I was a part of. But I can't say the Split really hurt us that much. Old faces and veteran editors were replaced by new talent and aspiring users who stepped up to leadership roles. Nukapedia continued to grow while our Curse counterpart became more and more quiet... I never harboured any resentment towards those who chose to follow the Vault to its new home. It all boils down to this: we are just a bunch of people on the Internet united by our passion for everything Fallout. That's it. We like the games, we like talking about the games, and we like writing about the games. This contest does nothing but unite several major Fallout communities in a jointly hosted friendly competition that gives us something to do as we await the new title with delicious anticipation. Yes, this would be helping the Curse wiki if it weren't for all the concessions listed on this forum that effectively establish the event as a mutually beneficial feature for both communities. This contest is not contingent on Nukapedia's participation -- this is simply an invitation for us to join in the fun. Nukapedia will also get a lot of exposure, should we choose to participate, likely offsetting any advantage that Curse gains (if that is really a concern). As for those who are concerned over some apparently unwritten decision made at a meeting, I cannot say that bothers me for even a split-picosecond. Nowhere is it written that any decision made at the meeting (by whatever means) carries any legitimacy or deserves any recognition as part of our policy, or even part of our principles that we operate on. Apparently Nukapedia and the Vault are not allowed to work collaboratively on anything...? Good grief. --Skire (talk) 00:58, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Excluded
  1. muh curse sponsor. what a load of shit, i like the idea. why not have some fun Detroit lions Hawk da Barber 2013 - BSHU Graduate 20:22, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

Oppose

This is not a vote! These sections are simply to gain a community consensus

  1. We have already discussed this at the general meeting. Not only do I see no reason why we should change our mind about not participating, but the active involvement of curse precludes ours. Agent c (talk) 17:10, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  2. Icon cross As per Chad. Shining-Armor (talk) 20:20, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  3. Icon cross See above. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 20:27, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  4. Icon cross What they said. KernOrisymbolHallowed are the Ori 20:29, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  5. Icon cross I honestly don't see what we would gain. I don't even recognize most of the communities listed and the few I do recognize I don't hold in that high of a regard. Paladin117>>iff bored; 20:42, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  6. Sorry, but I can't endorse this in good faith. Maybe others can, who joined this wiki after November 2011, but I'll always be bothered by the split, and it wasn't us that caused it. Now we're asked to join this, sort of Coca-Cola asking Pepsi to join in a campaign promoting cola. That's how I feel it anway. It's not done, just feels akward to me. I do appreciate your effort and it looks it can become a good bit of fun, but the combination of Wikia/Nukapedia and Curse/The Vault will not work me. Jspoel Speech Jspoel 20:49, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
  7. Icon cross Nope. Unfortunately, it seems like, for reasons right or wrong, all interactions with the user proposing this end up just like this already forum has. I have absolutely no interest in seeing even another word of the same. Fundamentally, I'm not strictly opposed to joint ventures with the wider Fallout community, even while I'm generally reticent to directly involve Nukapedia with it's direct competition. Were Leon to remove himself from this or at least hand over any communications to Nukapedia to someone else, I would then be able to consider it on it's own merits, but I'm afraid with him running the ship we'll only get more user conflict. I'm truly sorry that this is the only way I see it, but I'm calling it as I see it. I'll just go ahead an leave a link to Richie's talk page here for ease of use if my words are considered offensive.  The Gunny  UserGunny chevrons 01:06, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
  8. Icon cross --NukaTurtle (talk) 01:16, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
  9. Icon cross ------Cassie I can see you. 01:24, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
  10. The Ever Ruler (talk) 03:34, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
  11. Icon cross Lord Onions: Dat Onion Ring Luvin Fox! (Talk) 03:36, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
  12. Icon cross You appear to be backing off of your promise to respect the bc's/admin's decision on saying no to this. Great job.--Kingclyde (talk) 08:54, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Neutral

This is not a vote! These sections are simply to gain a community consensus

  1. change of heart, i don't really care what happens just figure something out or whatever. Detroit lions Hawk da Barber 2013 - BSHU Graduate 20:53, August 6, 2015 (UTC)


Nukapedian judge - Community pick

If your choice has already been proposed, please second the already existing choice instead of adding a redundant choice!

  1. Skire has expressed interest in joining the competition, yet is not eligible. It is because of this, his fair nature and his neutrality, that I earnestly support having him on board as our 5th judge. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 03:08, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments

Please, feel free to discuss this competition with us further! We are 150% open to all criticism/feedback/suggestions that you can think of! We want to make this an enjoyable experience for everyone, so do not be shy in giving your opinions. All I ask, is to please be respectful in your comments. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 03:08, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


Why are people who have chosen to disassociate themselves attempting to fashion what I can only describe as a faux community consensus? Agent c (talk) 18:29, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I have always been a part of both The Vault, and Nukapedia, since 2005.

Tagaziel, although deciding to leave, has been in full support of beginning earnest collaboration with Nukapedia, as we are tired of the drama that has been seen over the years.

Kastera also has never left Nukapedia, and periodically edits here, as well as being quite frequent on the Wikia-born RP'ing wiki, and the Fallout Answers wiki.

All 3 of us have put in significant contributions to this wiki, and I ask that you respect that, instead of making grandiose assumptions that violate the good faith policies that Nukapedia's community agreed upon. This forum is also relatively new, so you can expect to see support later from both sides of the road - not just ours. So please remain patient, and please be respectful until a consensus can be reached. Thank you - I consider this discussion concluded, as it has absolutely nothing to do with what is being actually being discussed here. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 18:48, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

Tagaziel has completely dissasociated himself with us, refuses to talk to us about interwiki issues, and his profile says its only in use for emergencies.

This isn't about respect, or lack there of, of his prior contributions. This is about respect for us. He isn't a part of this community, he chose to estrange himself from it.

I also have reason to believe he is employed in some way by curse. He was described by a developer working on Shadowrun Hong Kong as "Our man at curse".

As for what is being discussed here, its an issue you already raised, and it got shot down. The only difference is now it is sponsored by Wikia's competition. The Ausir precedent gives us a very good indication of what they're going to think about that. Agent c (talk) 18:53, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I asked for you to stop making assumptions. I am also not going to get into the All Hands meeting, as it was a rushed environment, in which only 2-3 people made a small comment. This time around, I have speaking to a lot of people, and there has been a lot of support that will be seen throughout the next couple of days.
So I reiterate: please be respectful, and please be patient. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 19:00, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
You've completely mischaracterised the all hands meeting, you were speaking to a lot of people, you pledged to accept the bureaucrats decision on it (which you have reneged on), and you've called in support from someone who has chosen to estrange themselves from the community, and as an added bonus, appears to have a conflict of interest. Which part of that is a non respectful assumption? Agent c (talk) 19:06, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
I am not going back on what I said earlier: I am not going to get lead into a huge off-topic discussion here on a forum that is preaching fun and collaboration. I might answer you further over our talk-pages, but only if you start taking a more respectful stance. So it is official, at this point: I am no longer answering off-topic comments, unless something very important needs to be addressed.
I chose to answer these, because I want to make a few things clear to anyone reading. But at this point, the only thing that can be accomplished by continuing this conversation on here, is the de-railing of this entire forum. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 19:11, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
I'm sorry you feel its off topic. However, your process and establishing "consensus" is very much on topic. I feel my stance has been respectful as I have stated my concerns in a factual way. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way.
As an Admin, a bureaucrat, and a user, it is my duty to ensure that any process followed is free of impropriety. Calling in long lapsed, or estranged users will not be accepted as "consensus".
If you wish to have a place for non members of this community to encourage support, I suggest you put it in a part of the forum that isn't intended to show such a consensus.Agent c (talk) 19:15, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I think this sounds like a great idea! A contest would get the Fallout wiki some more publicity, and it would be a lot of fun for everyone. "Space. The final frontier." ~The-Artist-64 (talk) 19:37, August 6, 2015 (UTC)The-Artist-64

Thank you so much for your support, Artist - I figured you would be interested in a competition such as this one! Make sure to also place a comment under the 'Support' section, so that we can help get a consensus together! User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 19:39, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I welcome further discussion with you, Paladin! The competition is here so that the collective Fallout community can have some competitive fun. Community features such as this one helps bring everyone together, so that they can show off their creative side.

But, I do respect your opinion should you wish not to change it. But if we do bring the competition here, regardless of your views, I do hope that you will join us for some fun - everyone is welcome, and that includes Nukapedians, even should it be decided that Nukapedia will not act as a co-host. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 20:46, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your opinion, J. I do not necessarily agree with it, as I feel like there is a lot of prejudice floating around which does nothing more than further divide the Fallout community has, but I do understand how you feel, as I was there with you when the split happened.

I only hope that your mind can be put at ease in the future, so that a proper relationship can start up again. I will be doing my part to make sure that a collaborative spirit can be shared between all of the Fallout communities. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 20:53, August 6, 2015 (UTC)

I have to agree with Gunny on this. This was brought up first in a series of talk page messages to various admins and bc's and it was shuffled to the side because it is pretty complex. It was them asked by you, Leon to be included in the admin/user meeting in chat which in that situation it was also shot down. The problem is this, you want to create a competition great! Pit editors against editors, not sites against sites because that is exactly how this is. The FO3 character Ausir and Porter ran back in the day is the perfect example of what we need to run as a competition. Not what you are proposing. It is convoluted and largely a mess. Legally you have to use a Gamepedia email? Really? That is just more advertising, not a legality. The very fact that you have once again decided to "go above the bc's/admin's heads" because in some odd fashion you seem to think everything you dream up is golden and should never be turned down. Here is a word of advice, if you listened to a decision and accepted our decision as you promised you would, we wouldn't be in this situation. This is not the kind of contest that we need. If anything we need an internal contest or something of that sort. But what you are proposing WILL lead to people calling favoritism or cheating when the winner is announced. I for one do not want Nukapedia involved in that nor have our name on that.--Kingclyde (talk) 08:51, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
"Not what you are proposing. It is convoluted and largely a mess" Sums up my main issue with this whole thing. I feel the reach exceeds the grasp here. Nice idea and I wish it all the best, but I honestly think it will just crumble. If there had been a smaller version a previous year then maybe I would feel differently, but right now I feel like this wont get a fraction of the interest (from both audiences and competitors) and will end up just falling apart. I don't really have any interest in us getting involved with something I feel is doomed to fail and I don't really want to waste time plugging it to a community which frankly doesn't care.<br?
"Legally you have to use a Gamepedia email? Really? That is just more advertising, not a legality." Touches on my other issue with this, in that while you say it will be good press and advertising for all involved I just can't see this being the case. The advertising will be very one way, with us linking towards Curse (with this being a curse competition) and very little of the reverse. I have never heard of half of these communities, and the few I do know would A) already know of Nukapieda, The Vault or both and B) would have made up their minds about which they use long ago. I see no real upside to us "co-hosting" (read: plugging the actual host) and honestly together with my first point, I can see only downsides. On top of my personal view, I doubt that Wikia wants us adverting Curse on wikia, so even if we did get involved it could likely quickly get shut down by the guys upstairs. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 15:06, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Sorry to see that you two feel that way. However, I do find myself disagreeing - I have an entire team working on this competition; it will not just be me, and has not been just me for quite some time now. A team that has done this sort of thing before, and have found great success in their past endeavors. As for the legal shtick, I am afraid I cannot say too much further on the subject. I even talked them into allowing Nukapedian competitors the chance to upload their entries directly onto their community, which is a unique perk extended to Nukapedia only. And what they told me were the legal expectations, which I am taking in faith, as they have been in business long enough to know what can, and cannot get them into trouble regarding events such as this one. I, however, do not have their experience - so my opinion would be moot, if I was to share one here.
I am also sorry that it is felt that I went over anyone's head. Something that should be taken into consideration, though, is that this competition is not about Nukapedia. This competition is about the collective Fallout community. Even should Nukapedia decide to not act as a co-host, we still have other communities and news outlets that will be joining us, and the competition will continue as normal. We simply wanted to give Nukapedia the chance to get directly involved. But even if Nukapedia does not get directly involved, we still have done our parts, because now a lot of people here know that a huge competition will be starting soon, and it will be within their choice as to whether or not they want to get involved.
As for Wikia, and their thoughts on this, we will have to see if it ever comes to that. If they choose to have an opinion, I will certainly be talking with them. I know quite a few of Wikia's staff members both on Wikia, and off Wikia such as on Skype, so if there is issue, we will be sure to have a discussion on the matter, just as we have done in the past. If they choose not to want the competition considered here, then I will take this forum down. It really is as simple as that.
I do thank you for the opinions. I am sorry to see the doomsaying, and I am a bit disappointed that I am seeing opinions that our two communities can never collaborate like this, all because we have been taught to believe that such things are taboo, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I know that is something that I will likely not be able to change. Regardless, this is a good chance for me to see and understand what I will need to focus on should I ever come back with future collaborative events. Time will tell. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 15:30, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
It is not a matter of "our two communities cannot collaborate" but rather the fact that this collaboration would be rather one sided to curse (which is fair, they are the hosts) and lacks any real reason for Nukapedia to get involved. Collaborating between The Vault and Nukapedia on a similar project may happen some day, but it would have to be a collaboration that favours both parties equally. JASPER//"Do you like hurting other people?"UserRichard 15:35, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Fun is not a commodity? I understand that politics may be involved here, and that many Nukapedians want to see very specific rewards for their participation. But this competition is not political. It is not about bribing communities to join us. We are offering fun to entire communities, for the chance to win some prizes. The only real concern that I have, is whether or not an entire community misses out of the chance to join in on something like this.
If it is being said that collaborative events have to overly-favour a specific community in order to get them involved, then that is just something that I cannot do. However, just as we have extended many compromises in order to bring this forum here, we are open to compromises from Nukapedia's end. And that is what this is all about - coming up with compromises between our two communities. The Fallout community is not a warground - being under a specific host should not cause for us to draw boundaries between our communities. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 15:49, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Again Leon, you fail to address the issues with this that we brought up to you by several users because they pose valid arguments against having your "contest" here. It is quite simply a advert for another wiki and other websites. The very fact that you failed to address ANY of my concerns is a slap in the face to myself and to the community as other members of the community validated my concerns. This is a problem that needs to be addressed and can't be swept under the rug with a simple "why not have fun" or "win prizes" type response. We aren't carnival attendees and hopefully you are not a carnie.--Kingclyde (talk) 20:03, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Some of the concerns have already been answered, or were answered by reading the forum, but I will go ahead and address a few of the concerns I have seen:
  1. Saying that this competition is nothing more than an advert, is speculation. Not just speculation, but bad faith speculation towards our intent. I have shown, on this forum, that we, not just I, went through pains to cut down on external links, in fact, there will only ever be 2 external links on the entire competition, excluding the E-Mail. I even talked Curse into making it where Nukapedian contestants, have the unique opportunity to put forth their entries on their own wiki - not ours.
  2. I did not promise anyone anything. Not to the bureaucrats, and not to anyone at the meeting. I asked for a preliminary opinion from the bureaucrats - nothing more. At the meeting, I made it quite clear that I did not agree with the very few people that said no to the idea. I have already asked for a quote of me promising anything, so until that happens, which I know will not happen since the quote does not exist, this is my explanation as to why I did not address this concern again.
  3. I do not agree that just because we are different communities, means that we cannot collaborate between ourselves. It is an unfortunate reality that external sources require at least some form of external link, but aside from that, I do not see what the big deal is. What is a big deal, is that we are offering a lot. Fun is a commodity. We are putting our own money, into offering prizes for everyone. Not just that, but we have gone through pains to compromise with certain communities, and we have also gone through pains to make sure that this competition is fair for everyone involved.

In my opinion, with Fallout 4 coming in, it is time for Nukapedia to stop being prejudiced against external communities. Since the split, we have stopped talking to just about everyone - that includes our own sister wikis. We dropped NMA, we dropped D&C, and for a lot of people here, it is taboo to even mention The Vault, or talk to anyone from The Vault. And I do not exaggerate, there - I could easily go into how users from The Vault are discriminated against.

The only thing I have wanted, is to help seal the divide. The Vault is willing to do so. Curse has shown that they are willing to do so. The only thing that we ask, is for Nukapedia to meet us half way. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 20:18, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

We didn't "drop" anyone. We never had that much of a outreach, although we talked about doing it. The closest we came was being upset about some coverage at a certain other site, but that is an issue I have no no intention on reopening.

I can't think of a single way in that Vault users are "discriminated" against for simply being vault users and I'm disappoined to see that old chestnut repeated in a call for unity. Agent c (talk) 20:28, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

It was decided, some time ago, that we would not even cover the two websites that supported our origins the most. The articles over these two websites were even deleted from our wiki.

And the discrimination is very real, but I am not going to get into that, as I am not going to speak on anyone's behalf. All I will say, is that there are quite a few users from The Vault, who do not come here much anymore, if at all, because of what has been said to them in chat, or because of what was seen in this wiki's chat logs. Also, do not think that I am suggesting that The Vault is innocent in all of this. Frustrations have been born from both ends, and I know that we have had to address issues from our end, as well.

That is what I want to try and mend. The vitriol does the collective Fallout community no good, and I would rather see us cooperate and regularly host events between each other. And I do mean between each other - if Nukapedia ever wanted to host an event on The Vault, there would not even be a question about it so long as the same compromises are seen that we have given with this competition. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 20:36, August 7, 2015 (UTC)


It was decided, some time ago, that we would not even cover the two websites that supported our origins the most. The articles over these two websites were even deleted from our wiki.

That wasn't "Dropping" that was applying our pre-existing editorial guidelines. They are fan works and not official. Personally, I'd love to hope the door a bit, and get in things like JES's mod, Nuka Break, and perhaps through such a change see a return to pages for those those two websites. However, as policy stood even when those pages were here, they were in breach of it. Every time adding in fan works is brought up, it gets shot down faster Goose over Former Vice President Cheyney's house.

I wont address unqualified and vague allegations, such things tend to speak for themselves.Agent c (talk) 20:46, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

As per the usual MO, this had gotten off topic quick and the underlying motives are clear. We just witnessed a Vault member call us "bitches and thieves" (paraphrasing) in chat even though he is guilty of copying articles without attribution. The fact of the matter is this, The Vault and Nukapedia had a split years ago yes. Was it clean? No. Will it be resolved? Probably not. The problem lies on both sides of the fence. The fact that you Leon come here and tel us that discrimination against Vault people seems to be the only factor preventing unification is hard to believe from what I saw in chat. This forum was about a contest. Now you, Leon have twisted it into a political forum about discrimination between Vault members and Nukapedia members. I thought you wanted to bring us together, not divide us further apart...--Kingclyde (talk) 20:49, August 7, 2015 (UTC)


I hope so, Chad - I know The Vault has been working with external communities quite a bit, such as seen with NMA and ShoddyCast, and I think it would be great if Nukapedia started doing the same. The two largest wikis, working to bring the collective Fallout community together, is a worthy goal.

I am not answering you any further, Clyde, until you bring down the melodrama. I have no idea of what you are talking about, for the chat matter, as I avoid Nukapedia's chat these days. I also, quite clearly, wrote that frustrations have been born from both sides of the fence, so you telling me that I am solely blaming Nukapedia, is a falsehood that can easily be fact-checked by reading back to my message before this one.

I cannot help anyone, if I am made out to be some monster. After the 10+ years I have been putting into The Vault/Nukapedia, I would have expected a lot more faith in the fact that I have always done my best to help both communities. The good thing is that I know many users here recognize that fact, as seen in the votes, and from the support I have been receiving off-wiki, too. Even if this competition is not shared between us, I hope we can still come back at some future date, and come up with a new idea. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 20:59, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

And before my motives are questioned any further, maybe this forum should be read by everyone. I have tried my hardest to keep matters between our communities civil, and this dates back to the split, even, when I stood in and spoke with users copying content from both sides of the fence.

Please do not question my motives, when I have a clear precedent that I am only here to help. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 21:04, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Um, I hate to point this out, but having clean hands on one issue doesn't prove your hands are clean on all of them. Agent c (talk) 21:13, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

What on earth does that mean? Maybe you have forgotten, but I was the one that was diligent in cleaning up external websites that were using libel against Nukapedia. I was the one who went to The Vault, and spoke my mind when users were talking bad about Nukapedia, and how it was only a mirror copy. I was the one who tried to foster community spirit through the SNM. I was the one that talked to two certain users over copying content, and got both of them to cooperate. I was the one that when, Nukapedia thought that one of their own users was plagiarizing content, did thorough research into the matter, and proved his innocence, even though I could have just agreed with whatever actions were being decided against him.

I cannot think of a single instance, in which I have ever done anything to harm either wiki. But I can think of many many many instances, in which I have been the only person going over and beyond to help watch out for both wikis, and keeping things from escalating beyond belief.

I will not stand here and have my accomplishments belittled. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 21:24, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

I am not answering you any further, Clyde, until you bring down the melodrama.

You have not answered any one of my question that I have asked you. Not one! You duck and dodge better than Mayweather. Frankly I don't care whether or not you visit Nukapedia chat or not. I pointed out a Vault member causing an issue, showing that it is not just Nukapedia have this imagined discrimination that you say and you just dismiss it.

I cannot help anyone, if I am made out to be some monster.

You do this to yourself. You treat new users with disrespect as well as bc's, admins and regular users. If anyone disagrees with you on one of your forums you argue with them. People just want to leave their opinion, they don't want to be hounded as to why they didn't vote for your resolution or didn't like your plan. If rules and guidelines are in place and you make others follow them, guess what they apply to you as well.

After the 10+ years I have been putting into The Vault/Nukapedia, I would have expected a lot more faith in the fact that I have always done my best to help both communities.

This one is a personal favorite of mine as the time you've been here gets longer. Oddly enough, Ausir founded The Vault in 2007. That makes it only 8 years ago. So 10+ years is a lie. I thought you never lie here on this wiki. But wait you did before. Plus your profile is from 2011. You say you were a anon since the creation of the wiki. Hard to believe. The more you make stuff up the more I find you less credible. I remember when you joined. You never claimed to be an anon. Only recently to "pull rank" on people. That is weird. Good day.--Kingclyde (talk) 21:24, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

  1. The Vault existed long before it came to Wikia. The fact that you immediately assume that I said I came to the Wikia variant of The Vault back in 2005, shows more as to your lack of knowledge regarding the history of our wiki, than anything else. And for your information, even with that point aside, I was an anon at Wikia since it was founded, as I was looking to move on from Wikipedia.
  2. I did answer your questions. In fact, I noticed that you are ignoring many of the questions that I answered, such as asking you to prove that I promised anything to the bureaucrats, and the fact that you spoke an absurd falsehood about how the only problems are coming from Nukapedia, even though I blatantly stated that the issues are coming from both wikis.

"People just want to leave their opinion, they don't want to be hounded as to why they didn't vote for your resolution or didn't like your plan."

  • Pot, meet kettle. Because last time I checked, this forum was starting off fine until I had bad faith accusations thrown at me. That is not even to mention, that I know for a fact that you cannot quote me on this forum where I have hounded anyone over their votes. You will see very respectful questions to you, Jasper, Paladin and J. It did not start getting heated again, until your melodramatic outburst. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 21:32, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Conclusion

This forum has officially been concluded, as of the writing of this comment. I came here in good faith, with an opportunity that I am making available to everyone. While many users here showed their interests in this opportunity, and many others that have not yet gotten to share their opinions with us, I have decided that it is in the best interests to close this forum down.

I came here to start some fun. But there is no fun in having accusations thrown around, malicious intent attached to our words and character, chat bickering taking place, and a bit of outright hypocrisy here at the end. That is not what I want to expose the community to - and I am not naive enough to assume that this behaviour will end with this forum's conclusion, whether I made the decision now, as I am doing, or if I had let the forum conclude naturally in a few days from now.

So I apologize to everyone that wanted to see Nukapedia as a co-host. The words of a few, do not represent this wiki, and so I want to ease anyone's minds, should they think that we will bar anyone from Nukapedia in this competition. We will not try and convince anyone here to join us - but know that if you choose to come of your own free will, we will never discriminate against Nukapedians.

Maybe in the future, we can attempt diplomatic channels again. But as of this time, it has been made painfully clear that we will not be met half-way in our efforts to at least try. Many will be disappointed in this - but I need to be clear about something: we reached out to Nukapedia, as a courtesy. We do not owe Nukapedia anything, and we will not lick the boots of Nukapedia in order to achieve results. If a compromise is ever to be reached, it needs to be understood that we are equals. When that times comes, if it comes, we will be eager to collaborate once again.

This is a decision from The Vault - not just me. If any user wishes to show some initiative, we are always watching our talk-pages, on both here, and on The Vault. Until then, enjoy the competition, whether or not you are a competitor or a reader that visits one of the the communities involved, and happy editing!

I will be asking an administrator to lock/archive this forum, and I will no longer be responding to inquiries here, should any be made. User:Sarkhan the Sojourner 22:16, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

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