Brotherhood Outcasts

Watched an old Shoddycast video on the subject just now and am curious if anyone else believes it could be canon. From what I know of lore wise, the instability between the Fallout 3 BOS, Outcasts and Western BOS makes me believe its possible. Also Arthur being based on the old Sword in the Stone, Lady in the Lake, Excalibur wielding King Arthur of legend seals it as a possibility for me. If its actually true, that gives even more reason to dislike Fallout 4s BOS for me. Thoughts?

What do you think of the Brotherhood Outcasts? Are they justified for their actions or not?

We don't really talk about the Brotherhood Outcasts a lot in Discussions. They were a rather short-lived faction with a somewhat anti-climactic exit from the series.

When they were active however, did you agree with their actions and reasons for leaving Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel? Was disobeying their Elder and killing their brothers nothing short of treason? Or do you think that their break-away from Lyons and his foolish ways was justified, or maybe even somewhat noble?

Bonus question if you're feeling up to it: Do you think being accepted back into the Brotherhood was the right decision, or was it undeserved?

Let me know your thoughts!

I have a question regarding the Brotherhood Outcasts in Fallout 3. Whenever I go to the Outcast Outpost and I have Outcast Power Armor equipped the four Outcasts that are stationed there (Protector McGraw, Specialist Olin, Defender Morrill and Brotherhood Outcast) don't mock me or use any insults, but if I go to Fort Independence and I have Outcast Power Armor it's a completely different story they all mock me, insult me, tell me to go back to my cave and that I should be banging rocks together somewhere. The usual stuff and the same goes for whenever I encounter an Outcast patrol in the Capital Wasteland. Is this normal? Because I have done the Outcast Collection Agent up to the point where the 'So, are we good? You trust me enough now?' dialogue option becomes available and Casdin says his piece about letting the patrols know that I'm a friend of the Outcasts. And after this point aren't the Outcasts supposed to use friendlier dialogue towards the Lone Wanderer and come to his/her assistance if they are under attack near by?

Do you think the brotherhood should change their way of thinking? should all chapters come together for a reformation of ideologies? if so what do you think it would look like? what would change? would the outcasts return as a faction because of the change or would they compromise?

What’s the most essential stuff to trade to the outcasts at ft. independence to gain access to the facility without hostility? Also, what do you like to gain as your rewards?

PS I’m not trading my alien blaster or ammo 😂

If you had to join one of these factions (lorewise), which would you pick and why?

For the sake of Lore Discussion, consider these factions alive and well, as well as independent.

The Enclave insignia.

Enclave troopers landing to engage the enemy.

On the one hand, we have the Enclave. They claim to be the continuation of the sovereign United States government before the war, and have built highly advanced bunkers and military facilities to house their faction. The truth is far more sinister, as they were actually a secret shadow government which controlled the country from behind the scenes, before the war occurred. They have an "elected" President from amongst themselves, and they exterminate those they deem sub-human (affected by the Great War and Wasteland radiation) as well as those they deem mutants. They believe themselves to be pure-humans, the opposite, and go on genocidal campaigns across the Wasteland in an attempt to seize control.

They utilise laser and plasma weaponry. They possess variations of Advanced Power Armour, as well as Hellfire Armour, the most advanced power Armour created by human hands. They also use Vertibirds for ease of transportation.

However, despite their technological edge and various resources at their disposal, they have created a lot of enemies whilst attempting to cleanse the wasteland, and have periodically lost multiple conflicts against weaker enemies. They serve as one of the Wasteland's most staunch villains, and are completely devoid of any compassion or empathy for those outside of their group.

The Brotherhood Outcasts' insignia.

Brotherhood Outcasts patrolling the Wastes.

The Brotherhood Outcasts were founded by Paladin Henry Casdin (now Protector), who broke off from Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel on the East Coast. They believed that they were not carrying out original mission of collecting technology from the Eastern cities and military bases, and that it was not the job of the Brotherhood to save every wastelander or fight their conflicts. They believed such efforts were a waste of manpower and resources, and that their Elder, Owyn Lyons, had "gone native". After all, everyone knows how to make another human but the knowledge to create a P94 Plasma Rifle is all but lost. They split from their Elder and roam the Wastes, combing through bases looking for technology, and hope to get in contact with the Western Elders to discipline Lyons.

The Brotherhood Outcasts have the same arsenal as their parent organisation, having stolen a significant cache of technology upon leaving the Citadel. They wield laser weaponry, as well as conventional firearms, and outfit themselves in T-45d Power Armour painted red and black. They utilise robots such as the formidable Sentry Bot, Robobrain and the Protectron in order to supplement their small numbers in the field. They can occasionally be seen wielding melee weapons. They scour the Wasteland looking for technology, and make their base out of Fort Independence in the Capital Wasteland. They can also be seen fighting the Enclave, sometimes being victorious despite the Enclave's technological edge, which is a testament to their resolve.

However, the Brotherhood Outcasts are equally lacking in empathy and compassion thanks to their ordeals with the Brotherhood of Steel schism, and take hardline views concerning wastelanders and communities, as the technology must come first. They have been known to resort to any means necessary to acquire said technology, in one instance resulting in a violent confrontation in the Operation: Anchorage DLC amongst it's own members. They are denounced as traitors by their parent organisation, and the two can be seen in conflict at times. It takes little provocation to have them open fire on wastelanders, who they berate as "locals", which has earned them a pretty negative reputation as (some would say) cutthroat thieves and murderers.

Let the community know in the comments which faction you would choose and why.

Not picking is still a valid answer, but doesn't exactly meet the point of the discussion.

Many of us know of the Brotherhood Outcasts, the band of renegades led by Paladin Henry Casdin (later ranked Protector) who split from the Lyons Brotherhood of Steel in 2277. Many of us also know how the Brotherhood likes to operate, with chapters being able to interpret their beliefs as they wish on the condition that they fulfil their mission.

The Brotherhood Outcasts split from the main force because they felt that Owyn Lyons had "gone native", and that they were not carrying out their mission.

"The Brotherhood came out here to recover technology from the eastern cities and bases. If Lyons won't do it, then we will."

-Henry Casdin

The Brotherhood Outcasts left the Citadel and took a vast array of technology with them, considered stolen by the Lyons Brotherhood. Despite the Brotherhood's official stance on the Outcasts, we see in the Citadel that a few are actually sympathetic of Outcast views. We further see in the future that many members of Maxson's Brotherhood in 2287 had some pretty harsh views on Lyons.

"I'm proud to be serving under Elder Maxson. I had enough of Lyons and his foolish ways." -Brotherhood Dialogue (Fallout 4)

The Brotherhood Outcasts, as far as we know, were eventually let back into the Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland when Arthur Maxson negotiated with them.

Many of the Brotherhood Outcasts felt that the wastelanders should be left to their fates, as it was not the duty to protect every local settlement.

"We didn't worry about saving individual communities. We worried about saving the progress of humanity itself." -Henry Casdin

They felt their express duty in the Capital Wasteland was to collect technology.

"After all, they say, everyone knows how to make another human, but the secrets to making a P94 Plasma Rifle are all but lost" -Owyn Lyons

The Brotherhood Outcasts disobeyed orders from their Elder, an act of treason, however they did so with the intention of regaining contact with the Elders back West.

"And when we resume contact with the Western Elders, Lyons is going to be put in his place. Even if that place is in front of a firing squad"

-Henry Casdin

The Elders back West have arguably more authority than Lyons, with the High Elder being absolute. The Outcasts did not betray them. In fact, it can be stated by the Head Scribe that actually it was Owyn Lyons that disobeyed orders and was not true to the Brotherhood's mission.

"He's in charge of this detachment, yes. He's not in charge of the Brotherhood. As loyal as I am to the man, I can't overlook the fact that he disobeyed orders, and it cost us. The West Coast cut us off completely, once they saw what was going on. So now we're on our own. No communications, no reinforcements." -Reginald Rothchild

So, we have a force that disobeyed a disobedient Elder on the grounds of principle and loyalty to their organisation's core beliefs. They are not ostracised or called traitors by the overarching Brotherhood chain of command back West. We see that the Brotherhood have beliefs concerning protecting humanity and its progress, but also that they have a duty to preserve and protect technology from abuse. The latter usually takes precedent in most cases of Brotherhood chapters, with Brotherhood soldiers believing they are indirectly saving humanity and its future.

In this way, the Brotherhood Outcast splinter faction could be seen as a more comparable representation to the West Coast Brotherhood.

When asked about the original Brotherhood back West, Casdin has this to say:

"We were collecting still-glowing embers from the ashes of humanity, before civilisations fire died completely."

We see in 2287 that Arthur Maxson takes many lessons of compassion and duty from Lyons, having been fostered by him. However, we also see the Brotherhood in Fallout 4 behaves much more like the Outcasts, with reminiscient "Black and Red" armour. Their members show a more gruff, no nonsense approach and are dismissive of those who are not Brotherhood, very much like the Brotherhood Outcasts.

"If you're not Brotherhood, you're nothing".

-Brotherhood Dialogue if you have not joined (Fallout 4)

However, one could argue that in an army, this is an act of desertion. Also, if members were allowed to leave and form different groups whenever they didn't agree with their Elder, the Brotherhood chapters would struggle to exist.

So, my question to all of you is, what do you think of this? Do you think that the Brotherhood Outcasts were justified? Do you support or condemn their actions? Do you also agree with the fact that they were let back into the Brotherhood, and that some traitors might be lurking amongst the Brotherhood in Fallout 4?